Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zucktown, USA

thebaffler.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 152 posts

Re: Zucktown, USA

#81

Post by emodendroket »

chis wrote: post #13

The linked anti-union article is more interesting than the original article IMO. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/07/silicon-valleys... I would tend to agree with the tech-ie opinion that unions are becoming obselete in the US. Unions existed to protect workers who were unskilled and interchangeable; the endgame of tech is to automate all those jobs. But obviously I’m not a labor scholar and this is just an…

The union is obsolete because workers are more interchangeable than ever? That is, uh, not how I would read it.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#82

Post by emodendroket »

mobiletelephone wrote: post #16
zdkl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very strongly disagree with the "unskilled" part. I am not a labor scholar either, but unions serve to federate common interests of workers who may not individually have leverage against their employer or relevant regulation body. Because your employer in tech can afford to give you a lifestyle easily in the highest couple percentiles doesn't mean you aren't replaceable and that you won't need representation as a c…

Wages are high if the supply of labour is low and the employer has money for wages. If supply is low and the employer does not have money, then the job won't exist. This is why tech workers wouldn't benefit from a union very much.

Has everyone already forgotten that Google and Apple wage-fixing scandal? In the real world there are factors beyond the Econ 101 stuff.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#83

Post by emodendroket »

pdpi wrote: post #60
mobiletelephone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages are high if the supply of labour is low and the employer has money for wages. If supply is low and the employer does not have money, then the job won't exist. This is why tech workers wouldn't benefit from a union very much.

You're assuming that wages are the only thing worth arguing over. Work environment, tools, work/life balance are all things that you might want, and where you might need leverage to get them.

Also the stuff about age discrimination. It's weird to me that so many people here are unconcerned about that because, like... we're all going to be old someday (hopefully).

Re: Zucktown, USA

#84

Post by zaptheimpaler »

princekolt wrote: post #70

HN is criticizing the article wording but completely ignoring its point. This article coupled with the other one on the dystopian reality of San Francisco[1] have me feeling completely disgusted at the current state of the tech industry. Simply put: these tech giants are making too much money. They are losing touch with the average people and simply put with reality itself. It wouldn't surprise me if that's exactly h…

Making money is not evil. Wall street makes money, pharma makes money, lawyers make money, insurance makes money, automobiles, consumer goods, real estate - all huge industries. Now that tech is being used on a massive scale of course the tech companies are making money. So what? It doesn't make sense to equate rich with evil - either for companies or for people.

SF (and many cities in the US and across the world) have always had poor people. The world has always been very unequal with kings and paupers and everything in between. Now some of them are in the same town and it freaks people out.. welcome to the real world. Anyone who has ever lived in NYC has seen the same inequality.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#85

Post by LesZedCB »

rdtsc wrote: post #19

And you'd go to Zuckshop and buy Zuckbread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store It would be creepy having to live in a employers' housing unit. But if it is subsidized enough many would jump on it. The interview process at many of these company is already geared to bring in college graduates. So a dorm of sort would make sense. Then they could outfit them work spaces so you could live there and maybe work rem…

> And you'd go to Zuckshop and buy Zuckbread

And you'd pay with zuckbucks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip

Re: Zucktown, USA

#86

Post by jonbarker »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #84
princekolt wrote: post #70

HN is criticizing the article wording but completely ignoring its point. This article coupled with the other one on the dystopian reality of San Francisco[1] have me feeling completely disgusted at the current state of the tech industry. Simply put: these tech giants are making too much money. They are losing touch with the average people and simply put with reality itself. It wouldn't surprise me if that's exactly h…

Making money is not evil. Wall street makes money, pharma makes money, lawyers make money, insurance makes money, automobiles, consumer goods, real estate - all huge industries. Now that tech is being used on a massive scale of course the tech companies are making money. So what? It doesn't make sense to equate rich with evil - either for companies or for people. SF (and many cities in the US and across the world) ha…

Making money is not evil, but social class increases likelihood of utilitarianism. Being a tech elite in the valley arguably makes one more likely to be more of a utilitarian. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psyched/201304/the-rich.... Large scale usage does not increase likelihood of profit, either. There aren't any hard disk drive billionaires, for example. Also they aren't in the same town; those who are trying to make it or work in the 'supporting cast' take BART from oakland or richmond, or do extreme commuting from the san joaquin valley.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#87

Post by htormey »

ssttoo wrote: post #7
vadym909 wrote: post #4

With an average tenure of < 2 years at these companies now, subsidized housing may force people to stay in companies longer especially if they have families. I'm not sure they can recreate Kodak/Rochester type place as there are so many rich companies vying for the same people.

> With an average tenure of citation needed :)

http://www.businessinsider.com/employee-retention-rate-top-t...

Matches my experience at FB & Apple. I spent about 2 years at each.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#88

Post by Bartweiss »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #78
avar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is a badly written opinion piece that meanders through various topics, but your critique of it is beating a strawman. It's not making the "you can't win" argument that tech companies should be critiqued whether or not they build housing. Rather, it's that they're supposedly constructing "company towns" in the sense that the housing stock they build won't be for sale, and presumably only rented to employee…

This is some William Gibson level stuff - in some of his stories the protagonists would be fixers who were hired to extract people from their companies they worked for.

I have been thinking about this with the Anthony Levandowski case.

How long does it take before someone has expertise valuable enough to go full Count Zero and extract them outside the reach of legal consequences? It's basically the approach Samuel Slater took, and I keep expecting to see it repeated today in either AI or biotech.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#89

Post by gniv »

moonka wrote: post #3

The wording makes this really hard to read.

I cringed at this: "Its CEO and founder, Jeff Bezos, has vowed to acquire four million more over the next five years, a muscular move meant to complement his midlife-crisis physique."

Re: Zucktown, USA

#90

Post by 659087 »

eru wrote: post #34
Nullabillity wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what happens to (your access to) that community when you quit Google?

It's actually not too bad. I quit, and am still friends with them. You can still get a visitor pass to go boardgaming etc. Of course that might be just a best case scenario..

Having to get a "visitor pass" to visit friends sounds like something that would happen with high school or college students living in dorms, not something that should be seen as normal or acceptable in the adult world.
Post reply on HN