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FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

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Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#41

Post by dpierce9 »

dgllghr wrote: post #10
hsod wrote: post #3

Net neutrality was dead the moment Trump won the election. Pai was specifically chosen in order to repeal it. Public comments and hearings and reports are all theater. If we wanted Net Neutrality to stick around, we shouldn't have elected a President who openly opposes it ( https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/53260835850816716... ).

While Pai and the FCC will do whatever they can to repeal Net Neutrality, the FCC operates with well defined stipulations. Once the FCC repeals Net Neutrality, it will be sued. And when it is sued, the burden will be on the FCC to prove that they had good reason to repeal Net Neutrality. That is why these public comments are so important, not because of Pai's actions, but because of the court case that will follow. I…

Not a lawyer but I worked for a different agency. The burden is incredibly high here because courts provide a considerable amount of 'deference' (See Chevron Deference or Chevron v NRDC) to agencies as long as they follow the rules of the Administrative Procedures Act and their interpretation of the law is not off the wall.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#42

Post by notfcctool »

nnfy wrote: post #38

Am I the only one bothered by the reclassification of ISPs as telecommunications companies? For this reason, net neutrality drastically expands the reach of the federal government, and opens up the internet to legal regulations drafted decades before the internet was even an idea.

Nope, you’re totally not the only idiot. Obviously, since Ajit Pai was reconfirmed.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#43

Post by nnfy »

notfcctool wrote: post #42
nnfy wrote: post #38

Am I the only one bothered by the reclassification of ISPs as telecommunications companies? For this reason, net neutrality drastically expands the reach of the federal government, and opens up the internet to legal regulations drafted decades before the internet was even an idea.

Nope, you’re totally not the only idiot. Obviously, since Ajit Pai was reconfirmed.

Wow, excuse me for trying to have an objective discussion and consider the possible downsides of this legislation.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why you think my comment justifies being called an idiot?

Edit: do you really want to give the Trump administration the power to decide what is and is not neutral content delivery? This is the kind of consequence I am attempting to discuss.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#44

Post by craftyguy »

hsod wrote: post #3

Net neutrality was dead the moment Trump won the election. Pai was specifically chosen in order to repeal it. Public comments and hearings and reports are all theater. If we wanted Net Neutrality to stick around, we shouldn't have elected a President who openly opposes it ( https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/53260835850816716... ).

If it's any consolation, donald frequently contradicts himself.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#45

Post by jackmott »

nnfy wrote: post #43
notfcctool wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, you’re totally not the only idiot. Obviously, since Ajit Pai was reconfirmed.

Wow, excuse me for trying to have an objective discussion and consider the possible downsides of this legislation. Perhaps you'd care to explain why you think my comment justifies being called an idiot? Edit: do you really want to give the Trump administration the power to decide what is and is not neutral content delivery? This is the kind of consequence I am attempting to discuss.

https://i.redditmedia.com/eL7_BFQW3XfTroeyzv9KqX8CaaWStPn-xj...

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#46

Post by mattnewton »

notfcctool wrote: post #42
nnfy wrote: post #38

Am I the only one bothered by the reclassification of ISPs as telecommunications companies? For this reason, net neutrality drastically expands the reach of the federal government, and opens up the internet to legal regulations drafted decades before the internet was even an idea.

Nope, you’re totally not the only idiot. Obviously, since Ajit Pai was reconfirmed.

Ad-hominin attacks don’t have a place on hn, something you no doubt know because of the throwaway account. Please resist the temptation next time, since now gp is only left with the impression you are rude instead of an opportunity to change someone’s opinion (maybe even yours), and arrive at common understanding.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#47

Post by nnfy »

jackmott wrote: post #45
nnfy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, excuse me for trying to have an objective discussion and consider the possible downsides of this legislation. Perhaps you'd care to explain why you think my comment justifies being called an idiot? Edit: do you really want to give the Trump administration the power to decide what is and is not neutral content delivery? This is the kind of consequence I am attempting to discuss.

https://i.redditmedia.com/eL7_BFQW3XfTroeyzv9KqX8CaaWStPn-xj...

Are you familiar with the concept of regulatory capture and how expanding the laws of a government which has been captured destroys competition, creates artificial barriers to market entry, and enables dangerous abuse of power?

Do you really want a guy like Pai to have his powers expanded?

Why won't anyone actually answer any of my questions? Especially if the answers are so obvious.

Try starting an ISP, or go read about how it is nearly impossible to enter the market and compete with the likes of Comcast et all because of regulations. These are companies with ~50% approval ratings, ripe for disruption, and we are stuck with them because of regulations.

The principle of net neutrality makes sense, but I have yet to see anyone attempt to convince me that there isn't some danger to at least consider in this implementation.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#48

Post by Retric »

matt4077 wrote: post #25
shmerl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only way to really prevent that is strong and disruptive competition that will spook all the current slumbering monopolists. Google Fiber pretended to aim at that, but now it slowed to a crawl (it did cause some good ripple effects). Will Starlink from SpaceX fix it? Who knows, but I have little expectation from the Congress to do anything of value about it. When was the last time they did something good…

I was going to write "the ISP market is a natural monopoly", but then I noticed that's missing the point in this case. Because the fear of Non-Net-Neutrality goes far beyond the usual "there's only two ISPs where I life and they both offer the same deals". It's something in completely its own category of nefariousness because they could be as anticompetitive as they want, and the market could not solve it. Even if Sp…

Satellite internet sucks because it's in Geosyncranis orbit at ~26,200 miles and you need to make the trip 4 times. LEO satellites would add ~250 miles worth of ping x4 which is a massive difference. Still not low enough for pro gamer doing FPS games, but just about anything else should be fine.

The problem is need a lot more satellites and your receivers need to be able to track satellites.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#49

Post by mattnewton »

nnfy wrote: post #47
jackmott wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://i.redditmedia.com/eL7_BFQW3XfTroeyzv9KqX8CaaWStPn-xj...

Are you familiar with the concept of regulatory capture and how expanding the laws of a government which has been captured destroys competition, creates artificial barriers to market entry, and enables dangerous abuse of power? Do you really want a guy like Pai to have his powers expanded? Why won't anyone actually answer any of my questions? Especially if the answers are so obvious. Try starting an ISP, or go read a…

I am bothered by it, but I don’t think lack of regulation is going to fix the issue, because an ISP is a natural monopoly. The rights they have acquired from the government and from the private sector to lay all those wires provide too big a hurdle in the absence of regulation, and passing laws to make to easier to lay wires for competition would have to have all sorts of negative externalities for property owners and cities, not to mention the inefficiency of building the infrastructure twice. So that leaves regulating the current ISPs as a public utility, like is done successfully in much of the world, or leaving the market in the hands of monopolists.

Re: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai accused of cherry-picking data to repeal net neutrality

#50

Post by nitrogen »

matt4077 wrote: post #25
shmerl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only way to really prevent that is strong and disruptive competition that will spook all the current slumbering monopolists. Google Fiber pretended to aim at that, but now it slowed to a crawl (it did cause some good ripple effects). Will Starlink from SpaceX fix it? Who knows, but I have little expectation from the Congress to do anything of value about it. When was the last time they did something good…

I was going to write "the ISP market is a natural monopoly", but then I noticed that's missing the point in this case. Because the fear of Non-Net-Neutrality goes far beyond the usual "there's only two ISPs where I life and they both offer the same deals". It's something in completely its own category of nefariousness because they could be as anticompetitive as they want, and the market could not solve it. Even if Sp…

It's someone not part to the ISPcustomer contract, namely that unknown video startup in Nantucket, or the e2e-encrpyted messenger app your friend Lauren is working on. They're going to be forced into paying ISPs if they ever want to reach the ISPs' customers. And there's no risk to the ISP, because nobody is going to change ISPs for some startup they've never heard about.

This is the problem with every truly great crime -- once it's fait accompli, the harm becomes impossible to prove. Whether it's MS of the 1990s with anticompetitive OEM agreements, or ISPs of today, we simply never get to experience the richer, more vibrant world that never was.

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