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When you split the brain, do you split the person?

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Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#61

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

liberte82 wrote: post #58
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what metric do you make that declaration? I submit that any empirical model of consciousness applies equally to states as it does to human minds.

A state doesn't have an independent sense of identity that is apart from the pieces that make it up. That is, it doesn't experience consciousness (as far as we know). If humans didn't have egos, identities and a sense of "I" and were merely sensory machines, then maybe there could be an equivalence. That is, if ego and identity are the same thing as consciousness. I'm not sure they are. Frankly, it's a mystery to me,…

In other words, you have absolutely no idea if a state experiences "consciousness" in the philosophical sense, so instead have claimed that it doesn't simply because it is too different from you to receive the benefit of the doubt, even though you recognize that such an assertion is impossible within an empirical framework.

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#62

Post by legohead »

The thing that has stuck with me is the career test that was given to someone with a split brain, and one side wanted to be a racecar driver and the other wanted to be something completely different. [1]

[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-superhuman-mind/201...

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#63

Post by vorg »

amelius wrote: post #46
otakucode wrote: post #42

Dualism is wholly wrong. There is no mind-body split. Even speaking of 'the brain' is just a rough convenience. Individual neurons stretch from that tangled mass of them up in your skull all the way down your spine and to the soles of your feet. Every nerve fiber extends from nearly every point in your body right into your brain. Perception pours in from every point, and it is all extremely important. Emotion, for in…

> Consciousness is not a 'thing', it is a property. But if consciousness is only a property that doesn't influence the actual physics, then how are we even able to talk about consciousness? Why would it occur to physical beings that something like consciousness exists?

> if consciousness is only a property that doesn't influence the actual physics, then how are we even able to talk about consciousness?

We conscious beings can talk about consciousness because we can never understand how consciousness arises from the actual physics, and can't talk about that. By not being able to comprehend how physics and conscious minds interact, our minds can talk about each separately. Perhaps the same principle extends to various components of physics, such as General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics -- maybe our consciousnesses are incapable of conceiving of the math that unites them. After all, Mathematics is simply only a product of our conscious minds.

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#65

Post by trollopTheJope »

the corollary to this question is more interesting - when you split the person, do you split the brain? the answer is not necessarily. for example, you may split the person horizontally or even at a knee or elbow joint. it might surprise you to know that even if you split them on the head, it does not follow that the brain will be split. this ability of science to turn a question on its head and throw out insightful conclusions surprises me almost daily.

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#66

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

laythea wrote: post #60
otakucode wrote: post #42

Dualism is wholly wrong. There is no mind-body split. Even speaking of 'the brain' is just a rough convenience. Individual neurons stretch from that tangled mass of them up in your skull all the way down your spine and to the soles of your feet. Every nerve fiber extends from nearly every point in your body right into your brain. Perception pours in from every point, and it is all extremely important. Emotion, for in…

> Just removing patterned sensory input from a typical person via sensory deprivation quickly results in their consciousness dissolving. What about people born with out sight or hearing or both. Do those individuals not have a conscious?

They still have other senses.

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#67

Post by bencollier49 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #15
d33 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what would be the evolutionary purpose of that. I doubt that many of our ancestors survived brain split and managed to reproduce in order to pass the genes, so having that feature would probably mean it's necessary for something else... sounds like a long shot for me though.

I think what is being suggested is not that it is a special function that only occurs in the case of the corpus callosum being split, but that these other communication channels are always operating regardless and the corpus callosum is specialized channel for certain kinds of information. Speculating based on the article, one would suspect that it allows for fast integration of visual information, but that other int…

The Corpus Callosum isn't the only interhemispheric commissure though, there are several more. The anterior and posterior commissures, as well as the Fornix etc.

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#68

Post by liberte82 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #61
liberte82 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A state doesn't have an independent sense of identity that is apart from the pieces that make it up. That is, it doesn't experience consciousness (as far as we know). If humans didn't have egos, identities and a sense of "I" and were merely sensory machines, then maybe there could be an equivalence. That is, if ego and identity are the same thing as consciousness. I'm not sure they are. Frankly, it's a mystery to me,…

In other words, you have absolutely no idea if a state experiences "consciousness" in the philosophical sense, so instead have claimed that it doesn't simply because it is too different from you to receive the benefit of the doubt, even though you recognize that such an assertion is impossible within an empirical framework.

Sure... but it's just as impossible to make a claim that it does.

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#69

Post by laythea »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #66
laythea wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just removing patterned sensory input from a typical person via sensory deprivation quickly results in their consciousness dissolving. What about people born with out sight or hearing or both. Do those individuals not have a conscious?

They still have other senses.

I think you missed my point.

Re: When you split the brain, do you split the person?

#70

Post by skissane »

otakucode wrote: post #42

Dualism is wholly wrong. There is no mind-body split. Even speaking of 'the brain' is just a rough convenience. Individual neurons stretch from that tangled mass of them up in your skull all the way down your spine and to the soles of your feet. Every nerve fiber extends from nearly every point in your body right into your brain. Perception pours in from every point, and it is all extremely important. Emotion, for in…

> Dualism is wholly wrong.

What do you mean by "dualism"? Substance dualism, property dualism, predicate dualism, hylemorphic dualism, etc?

Also, you speak as if dualism and some form of materialism or physicalism (there are many) are the only options available to us. What about idealism? Or neutral monism?

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