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Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

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Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#131

Post by s73ver_ »

KGIII wrote: post #35
jonnathanson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Warning: this post contains personal opinions and analysis, some of which might be deemed political.) There are really two classes of 'contract work' in the US. The first class is what I'd call skilled specialists. These are your independent marketing consultants, security experts, developers, designers, copywriters, etc. These folks are usually, but not always, fairly experienced. They take up contracting or consul…

It's fun to poke fun at the system we have in the US, but we're doing fairly well from a numbers standpoint. Our GDP is fantastic, our median income is quite good, and we still manufacture a bunch of stuff. China didn't actually start to manufacture more than us until just a few years ago, and they have something like three times the population. People say the middle class is shrinking, but seldom mention that the nu…

"Many of our businesses are the most profitable in the world."

As an employee, who's not invited to share in those profits, why do I care? Why would I rather have that, than have more stability and more vacation time like they do in Europe?

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#132

Post by s73ver_ »

briandear wrote: post #12
godzillabrennus wrote: post #2

Yes. The problem is that automation will be taking even more jobs away in the near future. It’s going to be a hard transition for people.

We’ve heard the same argument throughout industrialization. And everything was fine. Nothing is uniquely different now. Starving blacksmith, out of work horse trainers; yet an entire new industry, the automobile essentially created from nothing that employed more, created more wealth than all horse related commerce in the history of the world. It’s arrogant to think that this time it’s different, that somehow our tec…

So what's going to happen to the common worker?

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#133

Post by s73ver_ »

creaghpatr wrote: post #129
wavefunction wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could be more alluring, living in a shipping container in one of the shanty slums most of Snow Crash's people live in or being one of the lucky few to live in a corporate enclave? I'm just glad we're going to have the opportunity to live in a cyber-punk dystopia!!!

I just started reading Snow Crash, really loving it.

Read The Diamond Age afterward. It's not exactly a sequel, but all indications seem to show that it takes place in the same world, a couple decades later.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#134

Post by switch007 »

Swinx43 wrote: post #24
Nursie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a contractor in the UK I feel like I have better pay and prospects than 90% of staff members. Not 'promotion', but more respect for my expertise and more choice about my working practices. 'Promotion' is not something I've often observed happening in any of the software departments I've worked with of late. It does scare me when people say things like "40+ contractors still working as engineers", as if 40 is old.…

I agree with your assessment of being a contractor in the UK. I work as an IT contractor in the UK as well and have been a permanent employee before that. Permanent members of staff seldom get the same money as skilled contractors and have to put up with a lot more restrictions around holiday and work life balance. I would equate a contractor in the UK to being the equivalent experience of being a consultant without…

Any tips for transitioning to contracting? Should you be in a certain place (experience, ability, etc) or is just about taking a leap of faith?

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#135

Post by moocowtruck »

aantix wrote: post #109
wvh wrote: post #11

I've done mostly contract work because I liked the freedom when I was younger. Now I notice a lot of people my age have moved on to management or jobs "higher on the ladder" while I stress about the uncertainty of income when contracts end. I assume the lifestyle might suit people who are extraordinarily good networkers, but I feel mostly tired these days. My younger self didn't know about the fatigue the responsibil…

I'm a contractor. Have been for six years. Why do you care about other people's titles? A title won't save you during a lay off. A company can call me janitor as long as they pay my rate on time. At the end of the day, the risk for you and your family is a lack of cash. A "permanent" job is anything but that (you think they'll keep you around if the company is headed South?) Learn to negotiate better. Build a bigger…

where i work there's an IT union and you could sleep all day and they can't get rid of you... mwuhahha

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#136

Post by mgkimsal »

sreenadh wrote: post #67

Contract workers or Uber workers is a bad deal for all, with some short term gains. For a worker, yes, its less of office politics and having to deal with crappy co-workers. But that is how you grow. I learned so much when I am working with people than being all alone. So, having couple of people approach the same problem in different ways, helps you learn, teach & grow. I was learning something new everyday, when I…

You write as if "contract work" means you never talk to anyone at all, and it's just not the case. As a freelance developer, I have to communicate with clients and end users all the time. I subcontract out some work, so I have to work with them, oversee some work, manage timelines, etc.

> Plus contract jobs are effecting the basic needs of human beings - "food, clothing & shelter", due to the very nature of uncertainly...

Until your job (or department) is eliminated, or targeted for reductions. You'll have a similar level of uncertainty, but will have less control over doing anything about it.

> I was learning something new everyday, when I was working in a team.

Great for you, but at some point, you won't be learning much. Or you'll start to learn that "we're doing it joe's way because he's been here the longest". Or "we're going to use nodejs because XYZ... " but what it really means is dave wanted to learn node so his resume looked better when he left for the next job last month.

> and having to deal with crappy co-workers. But that is how you grow.

You can "grow" in a number of ways. Figuring out how to get clients, get work done and deliver projects to get paid is at least as much 'growth' as learning how to deal with office politics and crappy co-workers, many of whom may not share your work ethics, drive or priorities (yet their ethics, drive and priorities will still impact your ability to get things done).

> I personally feel that for that one rock star to actually perform, there needs to be a team behind to support.

And I've seen the opposite - where 1 or 2 people did 90% of the work - they were the true experts (domain, tech, etc) yet the entire team was praised, even when they either didn't contribute or in some cases were actual drains on the project. To publicly call out the bad team members, by, say, moving them to a different project, would look bad and make the manager(s) look bad, so things were kept as they were.

There is no one right setup for all projects or personalities.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#137

Post by ciaranm »

switch007 wrote: post #134
Swinx43 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assessment of being a contractor in the UK. I work as an IT contractor in the UK as well and have been a permanent employee before that. Permanent members of staff seldom get the same money as skilled contractors and have to put up with a lot more restrictions around holiday and work life balance. I would equate a contractor in the UK to being the equivalent experience of being a consultant without…

Any tips for transitioning to contracting? Should you be in a certain place (experience, ability, etc) or is just about taking a leap of faith?

Apply for contract work. Ask for it from recruiters who contact you. There's plenty out there in the UK, as long as you look. It's easy enough to get set up with an Ltd in 2-3 business days for everything you need, so don't worry about applying for stuff. Just manage your permanent role's notice period - contracts are generally looking for folks in a short time frame.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#138

Post by scottlegrand2 »

creaghpatr wrote: post #129
wavefunction wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could be more alluring, living in a shipping container in one of the shanty slums most of Snow Crash's people live in or being one of the lucky few to live in a corporate enclave? I'm just glad we're going to have the opportunity to live in a cyber-punk dystopia!!!

I just started reading Snow Crash, really loving it.

Soon to be a TV series...

http://deadline.com/2017/09/ringworld-lazarus-snow-crash-ama...

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#139

Post by KGIII »

s73ver_ wrote: post #131
KGIII wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fun to poke fun at the system we have in the US, but we're doing fairly well from a numbers standpoint. Our GDP is fantastic, our median income is quite good, and we still manufacture a bunch of stuff. China didn't actually start to manufacture more than us until just a few years ago, and they have something like three times the population. People say the middle class is shrinking, but seldom mention that the nu…

"Many of our businesses are the most profitable in the world." As an employee, who's not invited to share in those profits, why do I care? Why would I rather have that, than have more stability and more vacation time like they do in Europe?

Your salary and benefits are your share of the profits.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#140

Post by KGIII »

s73ver_ wrote: post #124
KGIII wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an idea, why have a POS system at all? Why have a waitstaff that take orders? Why not just give the orders to the cooks and eliminate mistakes made by servers? What about in-kitchen optimizations? What about reducing spoilage? The possible places to improve are limited mostly by your imagination. What complaints do the bossss have? What do the workers complain about most? Those are rhetorical questions, I don't…

Here's a tip: Try not to come up with ideas that are going to put large groups of people out of a job.

Hold back progress rather than have a surplus of labor to solve new tasks?

I know what you wrote, but that's what I read.

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