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Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

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Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#11

Post by wvh »

I've done mostly contract work because I liked the freedom when I was younger. Now I notice a lot of people my age have moved on to management or jobs "higher on the ladder" while I stress about the uncertainty of income when contracts end. I assume the lifestyle might suit people who are extraordinarily good networkers, but I feel mostly tired these days. My younger self didn't know about the fatigue the responsibility for a family brings.

In a fixed career you have a chance to build something up, while in contracting you're often back to square one with each new contract. You might have more experience, but you don't have the sort of trust and responsibility which you earn if you work long enough in a company or with the same group of people.

It's hard to find truly permanent jobs these days.

I think it's also biting companies in the long run, as I notice more and more graveyards of abandoned projects and services running without anybody present who was involved in building or setting up. But those costs don't seem as obvious to those in charge who'd rather not have to hire permanent workers.

(I work in software engineering and security.)

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#12

Post by briandear »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #2

Yes. The problem is that automation will be taking even more jobs away in the near future. It’s going to be a hard transition for people.

We’ve heard the same argument throughout industrialization. And everything was fine. Nothing is uniquely different now.

Starving blacksmith, out of work horse trainers; yet an entire new industry, the automobile essentially created from nothing that employed more, created more wealth than all horse related commerce in the history of the world.

It’s arrogant to think that this time it’s different, that somehow our technology advances are finally going to wipe out the common worker. These arguments that automation is going to collapse society, etc— straight out of the Marxist playbook; they were saying the same thing about factory machinery a century ago, weaving looms, for example.

Everything will be fine.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#13

Post by jacobush »

briandear wrote: post #12
godzillabrennus wrote: post #2

Yes. The problem is that automation will be taking even more jobs away in the near future. It’s going to be a hard transition for people.

We’ve heard the same argument throughout industrialization. And everything was fine. Nothing is uniquely different now. Starving blacksmith, out of work horse trainers; yet an entire new industry, the automobile essentially created from nothing that employed more, created more wealth than all horse related commerce in the history of the world. It’s arrogant to think that this time it’s different, that somehow our tec…

Exactly! Nothing will happen that a global war or two can’t sort out.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#14

Post by fiftyacorn »

wvh wrote: post #11

I've done mostly contract work because I liked the freedom when I was younger. Now I notice a lot of people my age have moved on to management or jobs "higher on the ladder" while I stress about the uncertainty of income when contracts end. I assume the lifestyle might suit people who are extraordinarily good networkers, but I feel mostly tired these days. My younger self didn't know about the fatigue the responsibil…

You make some good points about the stress associated with contracting and bringing up a family. It is stressful knowing that in x months your back looking, or back on the market.

But at the same time I dont think the grass is greener being permanent. I know lots of people who have been made redundant more than once in permanent roles, and couple that with being tied to some near obsolete technology places you in a worse position than having to keep on top of your skillset for contracting.

I dont mind staying a developer at the moment, but even in contracting terms there is still opportunity to move sideways to analyst roles, or at the moment data roles by being selective with contracts

I sometimes wish I was permanent - but then realise that actually offers me more security in spite of the downside

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#15

Post by grahamel »

> “One big issue is training,” notes Bidwell. “As an employee, your employer may pay to train you and keep you up to date on new technologies. They will also give you a chance to try new kinds of work and learn that way. As a contractor, nobody is paying for you to learn

I've now been contracting as a developer for as long as I was a permanent employee and I've learnt more as a contractor. Sometimes it's been a bit of luck with a job but the rest is mostly from only having to do the job you're in for - so no reviews, company meetings and the rest, plus I can pick and choose (and afford) to go to more workshops and conferences.

It can be easier to be complacent as a perm employee but less so as a contractor.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#16

Post by Nursie »

q-base wrote: post #9
Nursie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a contractor in the UK I feel like I have better pay and prospects than 90% of staff members. Not 'promotion', but more respect for my expertise and more choice about my working practices. 'Promotion' is not something I've often observed happening in any of the software departments I've worked with of late. It does scare me when people say things like "40+ contractors still working as engineers", as if 40 is old.…

Don't get scared by peoples labels. There is nothing you SHOULD. There are choices and consequences. If you make a good living and enjoy what you do, then why suddenly question it.

Oh I don't, it's not so much about what I enjoy as the threat of ageist hiring practices that worries me.

That said, I am moving to be more independent over time, and hope to have my own thing going within the next few years (over and above my current contracting business)

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#17

Post by sefrost »

Nursie wrote: post #7
jondubois wrote: post #5

I've done a lot of contract work as a software engineer over the past 5 years. It's a good way to experiment with a lot of different companies and industries. It's generally true that contractors can't get promoted within the company. It's not unusual to see 40+ year old contractors still working as engineers. The money is great but you really need to have a low risk investment strategy on the side... I don't think y…

As a contractor in the UK I feel like I have better pay and prospects than 90% of staff members. Not 'promotion', but more respect for my expertise and more choice about my working practices. 'Promotion' is not something I've often observed happening in any of the software departments I've worked with of late. It does scare me when people say things like "40+ contractors still working as engineers", as if 40 is old.…

Is contracting in the US the same thing as contracting in the UK? The article doesn't seem to explain what a contractor is.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#18

Post by mattmanser »

grahamel wrote: post #15

> “One big issue is training,” notes Bidwell. “As an employee, your employer may pay to train you and keep you up to date on new technologies. They will also give you a chance to try new kinds of work and learn that way. As a contractor, nobody is paying for you to learn I've now been contracting as a developer for as long as I was a permanent employee and I've learnt more as a contractor. Sometimes it's been a bit o…

That's very different than what they're talking about.

Firstly they're not talking about your kind of contracting.

Secondly, as developers we have a lot of power and freedom because our job is to use the very tools which make it easy to learn.

Other people need more formalised training, or help even getting started using the new tools.

It feels like you're trying to blame the workers, the victims, here.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#19

Post by Nursie »

sefrost wrote: post #17
Nursie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a contractor in the UK I feel like I have better pay and prospects than 90% of staff members. Not 'promotion', but more respect for my expertise and more choice about my working practices. 'Promotion' is not something I've often observed happening in any of the software departments I've worked with of late. It does scare me when people say things like "40+ contractors still working as engineers", as if 40 is old.…

Is contracting in the US the same thing as contracting in the UK? The article doesn't seem to explain what a contractor is.

I have no idea!

I get the impression that contracting in the US, at least in tech firms, is a lot less lucrative.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#20

Post by jcun4128 »

wvh wrote: post #11

I've done mostly contract work because I liked the freedom when I was younger. Now I notice a lot of people my age have moved on to management or jobs "higher on the ladder" while I stress about the uncertainty of income when contracts end. I assume the lifestyle might suit people who are extraordinarily good networkers, but I feel mostly tired these days. My younger self didn't know about the fatigue the responsibil…

Edit: somewhat connected tangent life experience thought

I'm still a noob myself but I landed a long term contract developing a web application and I like being able to bill (invoice) and just get paid. It's a surprising thing haha, I haven't been working through UpWork in a while but that's still my primary place to look. I work a more-than-part time job in a restaurant (pays my bills as a restaurant drone).

I am trying to land a "full time" position somewhere for security (financially) but I'm lacking in skill/specific stack requirement/degree with almost all the jobs I see near me and also if I do match the majority of the requirements I don't have transportation (working on it).

Remote is cool with regard to picking up random jobs online.

Also regarding freedom, I have a terrible sleep pattern and work mostly at night/sleep in the day. I often go to the restaurant job without sleep just because of the fixed operating time (case against me).

I just think if the "permanent position" I could get would be those people (who I work for) getting contracts from other people, why can't I do it myself and get the whole pie. Granted I'm one person and not a company/can only do so much. But I also wonder can't I generate value myself and not just be dependent on a "full time position". A full time position would be great, better than doing the same thing over and over everyday which is what I currently do at my day job.

I'd like to be an entrepreneur and develop some service/product but I haven't thought of anything yet. Probably not exposed enough to pick up on pain points that people experience. I'm starting to learn/work with hardware though, maybe something there.

Edit: What's hard right now with regard to catching up to a tech stack "just for the sake of getting hired" is the time/expertise. I learned LAMP when I started to develop back in 2013 and I know like why is that still the only thing I know how to do aside from Python, granted I'm full stack can build a full web application but it's not using NoSQL, JavaScript framework, function as as service, serverless etc... The nice thing is LAMP is still pretty prevalent especially in WordPress but most of those jobs aren't great/high paying I guess depends.

I'm working on it though, trying to catch up I just don't know what to learn because it seems there are so many, Angular or React (heard React is easier), can't use MongoDB yet because I need to use at least Node.js or something else that can interface with it. Not sure about postgresql. Working on learning Git, and probably Docker for my local environment setup, having problems with hosts/variables/directories.

If I had an idea that I could execute on I could build it with LAMP for myself not for another requirement. I'm not defending LAMP, already I'm experiencing MySQL's memory/resource intensiveness for example, it keeps growing in RAM usage.

I'm not financially secure so that's why I'm looking for a full time position. But... I'm also technically/stack wise behind so working on it, gotta wait/learn on my free time.

sorry verbose

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