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Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#11
post #6

This is fascinating stuff. Ta to whomever put it here for broadening my horizons a bit. I've been aware that my general cultural norms are not transferable worldwide but I'd always considered smiling a universal human thing that worked everywhere as a sign of friendliness. Many cultures nod their head for yes and shake for no. Some do the reverse. This I get (eventually) but smiling - really? Well, yes ... why not? I…

Smiling is fundamental. Fetuses have been observed smiling in the womb. In ethology, I think it's considered what's called a fixed action pattern, it is basically hard-wired in us. But of course, the environment and culture modifies this behavior and its meaning.

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#12
Sensationalist oversimplification.

For Russians, a smile serves a different function than for Americans. It's not used for communicating with others and does not serve as a social marker of openness or good mood. The social expectation is that a smile must always be prompted by something, whether it's someone's joke, or a humorous occurrence, or even own embarrassment.

People don't smile in posed group photos for the same reason sitters don't smile in Renaissance portraits. Does it really follow that smiles and laughter are alien to these weird people?

https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+cadets+smiling+milit...:

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#13

Sensationalist oversimplification. For Russians, a smile serves a different function than for Americans. It's not used for communicating with others and does not serve as a social marker of openness or good mood. The social expectation is that a smile must always be prompted by something, whether it's someone's joke, or a humorous occurrence, or even own embarrassment. People don't smile in posed group photos for the…

> the social expectation is that a smile must always be prompted by something

Well, that's exactly the point that's interesting to analyze. I.e. why there is such social expectation.

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#14

Same question in a mirror: why some cultures promote phoniness and avoid true feelings? Actually I wonder why some cultures are prone to inflicting genocide.

Perhaps you are referring to some dictatorships, e.g. fascism in Italy, where people where expected to be cheerful and optimistic at all times and being gloomy or pessimistic was strongly discouraged by the government.

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#15
post #3

I actually thought the smiling people in the images seemed less intelligent and less honest than the neutral looking people.

For me there's a big difference between someone flashing their teeth in a big grin, and a photo that freezes the moment in time. The longer I look at such a motionless smile, the sillier it seems.

FWIW, I'm from Germany (way to the right on the graph) and probably somewhat of an outlier, since people kept asking me whether I was sad when I just made a neutral face. I ended up training myself to always curl my lips slightly to stop those questions.

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#16

Same question in a mirror: why some cultures promote phoniness and avoid true feelings? Actually I wonder why some cultures are prone to inflicting genocide.

Perhaps you are referring to some dictatorships, e.g. fascism in Italy, where people where expected to be cheerful and optimistic at all times and being gloomy or pessimistic was strongly discouraged by the government.

Nice try but not at all: governments come and go while cultures have a much longer lifetime. Witness "grim and gloomy" russians under prescriptive eternally optimistic communist dictatorship. I think those folks that downvoted my comment had a different idea and, perhaps, felt it's too close to home for comfort.

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#17
> Why do some societies not encourage casual smiling?

Because smiling is a thing you do (as opposed to something you actively avoid doing), and doing something with no reason is silly.

> Russian women do not have to worry about being instructed by random men to “smile.”

That’s also a very good reason.

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#18
To me a much simpler explanation is that people in Russia are incredibly sad and life there is very sad and hard. However almost no one there realizes it until they get out for a prolonged period of time.

Me and my wife were born and spent most of our life in Russia, we were pretty well of and yet since moving to US we realized how sad it actually was.

The collective consciousness of Russia is still heavily polluted with pain, fear, uncertainty and mistrust of everyone because of the terrible events that unfolded throughout it's history, but mostly in 20th century. Millions were murdered and executed during and after the revolution, more were executed before 2nd world war, 10s of millions died in the 2nd world war.

Repressions, starvation, constant economic struggles nullifying people's saving and results of life's work and at the end of work life, a sight of a miserly pension that unifies everyone, regardless of previous status in life, in poverty. Most old people who live on a pension look like homeless people in US.

Russian families mostly are highly codependent and dysfunctional, a lot of men drink and women resort to constant unhappy nagging and displeased demeanor. A lot of spouse relationships play out the role child/parent, where the wife is being a parent and husband is being unruly child, avoiding the responsibilities and hiding from the consequences. Public displays of affection are almost non-existant, very hard to find genuinely happy couples, especially those who've been married for a while.

The country itself has terrible ecology, most cities struggle with crazy levels of pollution because of the car traffic and factories built within city limits. A lot of cars are from soviet times so they produce a lot of smoke, sometimes after a bus passes you by you can't see anything because of the clouds of black smoke.

The cities are covered in soot and the roads are covered in dirt, sand and road salt. That dirt is everywhere, covering the trees, cars, houses. It's unthinkable to live in Russia and don't clean you shoes every couple of days, because they get very dirty. After every rain the dirt is everywhere. All of this combined makes cities look grey, especially during the spring, winter and fall, excluding the short summer period that lasts usually around 3 months where green of the trees and grass dilutes all of this a bit.

Don't take my word for it, here's the real Russian news site of the city Krasnoyarsk, population 1 mil. It shows center of the city:

http://prima-tv.ru/news/incidents/43896-sosulka_ubila_muzhch...

To me all of that explains really well why there's not much to smile about. If you're smiling without a reason people see you as someone who have things going well and feel jealousy and want to bring you down in their own heads to justify their own misery.

A lot of people in Russia leave in the denial of the true causes of their suffering and unhappiness and I'm sure they'll downvote this.

Re: Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling (2016)

#19

To me a much simpler explanation is that people in Russia are incredibly sad and life there is very sad and hard. However almost no one there realizes it until they get out for a prolonged period of time. Me and my wife were born and spent most of our life in Russia, we were pretty well of and yet since moving to US we realized how sad it actually was. The collective consciousness of Russia is still heavily polluted…

I think you’re on to something.

A friend once described his reasons for moving from Manhattan. He said that he was depressed all the time and that he realized that everyone he knew was also depressed. Having grown up in a different part of the country, he saw that this was an environmental issue caused by his surroundings. He found that life was much more pleasant after relocating.

Point being, tt often takes the absence of something to become aware of its impact. We notice discomfort more when we have had comfort before it.

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