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Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

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Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#191

Post by erikbye »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #189
ThomPete wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Danish tax rate is one of the highest in the world if not the highest in the world. On top of that you have 25% VAT and on cars, you are up to around 200% (recently lowered) Denmark is indeed remarkable.

The tax rate is high, but on the flipside we also have pretty much the best and most extensive public services and social safety nets in the world. Still, it's around 25-35% all-in, nowhere near the 50+% a lot of right-wing pundits keep lying about. Car registration tax has never been 200%. It has been 105% up to ~$15K of the car's value and 180% above that for years, which was lowered to 150% some time ago. Now the…

You seem to agree that Denmark's vehicle taxation is remarkably high. Many people are reliant on having a vehicle, and one larger than a Polo, so their total taxation is remarkably higher than in other countries based on this alone. You used the word "rightfully" as if it's a moral given that people in need of bigger vehicles should be taxed more.

Vehicles aside, in Denmark, you have a gross tax of 8% in addition to payroll tax. You have municipal tax, a health contribution tax, etc. If you make more than DKK 479 600, you are taxed an additional 15%. This means you will be taxed around 50% on income tax alone. Then add the vehicle taxation, and VAT, etc.

You can try to justify this massive taxation. Rationalize it, based on your political views. But it's not wrong to say that Danes are taxed even more than Norwegians.

> Still, it's around 25-35% all-in.

That's false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark

http://www.economist.com/node/21531016

https://tradingeconomics.com/denmark/personal-income-tax-rat...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#192

Post by fulafel »

erikbye wrote: post #191
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax rate is high, but on the flipside we also have pretty much the best and most extensive public services and social safety nets in the world. Still, it's around 25-35% all-in, nowhere near the 50+% a lot of right-wing pundits keep lying about. Car registration tax has never been 200%. It has been 105% up to ~$15K of the car's value and 180% above that for years, which was lowered to 150% some time ago. Now the…

You seem to agree that Denmark's vehicle taxation is remarkably high. Many people are reliant on having a vehicle, and one larger than a Polo, so their total taxation is remarkably higher than in other countries based on this alone. You used the word "rightfully" as if it's a moral given that people in need of bigger vehicles should be taxed more. Vehicles aside, in Denmark, you have a gross tax of 8% in addition to…

Cars are a major cause of global warming, so there is a pressing need to curb their use. People don't inherently need cars (or big cars), we have to change our ways to drive less.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#193

Post by jk2323 »

flexie wrote: post #164
jk2323 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTML was created in Switzerland. Linux in Finland. Not sure what "software" companies are for you. Google? Well, China has enough Internet counterparts (Tencent, Wechat, Alibaba etc.). Softbank (Japan) just bought ARM (UK). Regarding "software" companies like Microsoft, SAP (DE) is quite a decent size. Nokia (Fi) was once leading edge too. Sure you have not heard about Skype and Transferwise, but they do exist. Maybe…

HTML was based on the ideas of a British national, Tim Berners-Lee. He spoke English. So did Linus Thorvalds, and the founders of Skype and Transferwise. ARM and Nokia are/were not mainly software companies, but producers of chips and cell phones (where software is a part). Not sure what bubble you are talking about.

Zuckerberg speaks Chinese. What is your point? That being multilingual makes you a better programmer?

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#194

Post by SirZimzim »

ivm wrote: post #152
beagle3 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have visited Denmark and Sweden, and the most obvious change when you cross the border is that Danes rarely smile walking down the street (or talking to you), whereas Swedes look generally happy. It is likely a cultural thing, as young (4-6 year old) Danes on the street do some happy, unlike their older siblings and parents; I am aware that this contradicts surveys that conclude Danes are the happiest people and Sw…

But why do you need to look happy when you are happy? Asking as an Eastern European.

As an Eastern European living in America. These days I smile so much for no reason during the simplest interactions with people that I feel like an idiot. I'm not happy at all.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#196

Post by elnygren »

danschuller wrote: post #125
elnygren wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Finnish (the lang is nowhere near English) and I've begun coding in my early 20s and I'm a technical co-founder (who actually knows his stuff). I don't think language is the reason here. Good education, smart people, good safety nets and a culture of doing things well & properly are IMHO better explanations. About the culture thing: go to anywhere in Europe/World and you'll find out that the Nordic countries in g…

Are you saying Frances broken door knobs and fondness for kitsch is holding them back?

Well if you can't get out of the building and you're losing focus to all that useless stuff lying around in your office... ;)

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#197

Post by beagle3 »

SirZimzim wrote: post #194
ivm wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you need to look happy when you are happy? Asking as an Eastern European.

As an Eastern European living in America. These days I smile so much for no reason during the simplest interactions with people that I feel like an idiot. I'm not happy at all.

Where do you live? Having lived quite a few years in NYC I would say New Yorkers don’t smile much; at least not as much southern Californians.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#198

Post by KozmoNau7 »

erikbye wrote: post #191
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax rate is high, but on the flipside we also have pretty much the best and most extensive public services and social safety nets in the world. Still, it's around 25-35% all-in, nowhere near the 50+% a lot of right-wing pundits keep lying about. Car registration tax has never been 200%. It has been 105% up to ~$15K of the car's value and 180% above that for years, which was lowered to 150% some time ago. Now the…

You seem to agree that Denmark's vehicle taxation is remarkably high. Many people are reliant on having a vehicle, and one larger than a Polo, so their total taxation is remarkably higher than in other countries based on this alone. You used the word "rightfully" as if it's a moral given that people in need of bigger vehicles should be taxed more. Vehicles aside, in Denmark, you have a gross tax of 8% in addition to…

Yes, the vehicle taxation is high. Should it have been set that high originally? Maybe, maybe not.

But the simple fact is that it highly encourages people to buy cars that pollute less, and with the new rules, also cars with the best safety ratings. It also encourages people to keep their cars for longer, which is better for the environment (producing a new car uses a lot of energy).

And yes, if you buy a bigger and more expensive car (which probably also gets worse gas mileage), you get taxed more, in absolute numbers. It's not a complicated concept. Overconsumers pay more, it's only fair.

You seriously misunderstand the marginal tax rate. It is only applied to income above 479,600kr. Nobody pays even close to 50%. The ~40% in your link is on a 635,000kr/year income, which is rather high, includes marginal tax, and again is nowhere near the 50% you claim. It also doesn't take into account deductions for debt, charitable donations and other things, which help bring down the effective tax percentage.

Your third link is highly misinformative, since it only looks at the marginal tax rate, which again is only applied to income above 479,600kr. If you make 480,000kr/year, the marginal tax rate is only applied to the last 400kr.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#199

Post by erikbye »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #198
erikbye wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to agree that Denmark's vehicle taxation is remarkably high. Many people are reliant on having a vehicle, and one larger than a Polo, so their total taxation is remarkably higher than in other countries based on this alone. You used the word "rightfully" as if it's a moral given that people in need of bigger vehicles should be taxed more. Vehicles aside, in Denmark, you have a gross tax of 8% in addition to…

Yes, the vehicle taxation is high. Should it have been set that high originally? Maybe, maybe not. But the simple fact is that it highly encourages people to buy cars that pollute less, and with the new rules, also cars with the best safety ratings. It also encourages people to keep their cars for longer, which is better for the environment (producing a new car uses a lot of energy). And yes, if you buy a bigger and…

I still don't understand where you get 25-35% tax "all-in" from, as you wrote in a previous post. It seems if you're to make what's considered anything like a decent wage in this sector (tech) you will pay at least 40%, and the more you make the more you pay, hence progressive tax.

Is this wrong?

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#200

Post by erikbye »

fulafel wrote: post #192
erikbye wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to agree that Denmark's vehicle taxation is remarkably high. Many people are reliant on having a vehicle, and one larger than a Polo, so their total taxation is remarkably higher than in other countries based on this alone. You used the word "rightfully" as if it's a moral given that people in need of bigger vehicles should be taxed more. Vehicles aside, in Denmark, you have a gross tax of 8% in addition to…

Cars are a major cause of global warming, so there is a pressing need to curb their use. People don't inherently need cars (or big cars), we have to change our ways to drive less.

I won't really get into the politics of vehicles, but many people do need a car if they are to make a living, thinking otherwise is naive and unrealistic. For many, it is their living. Others need it for personal freedom, some people enjoy a road trip; others like to be able to visit friends and family. Perhaps some even use a vehicle to come take care of sick and elderly living in rural areas. People who don't live in cities need cars; public transportation is not widespread enough or flexible enough.

Maybe you want to condemn everyone to live in cities? Or to not have big families, or to not produce goods where at one point those goods need to be transported to outlets by vehicle. The manufacturing of goods cause pollution as well, you don't want to have that production in urban areas and affect the health of those living there. Not all transportation can be done by other means, shipping, trains, etc. Goods have to get to stores. Sometime in the future, we will have more efficient means of delivery, at the very least all the vehicles delivering goods will be autonomous and electric, but for now, we're not there.

In the case of Denmark, first off, their vehicles per capita is very low, and not because of taxation. Going after the few people who need their cars is punishing, kind of hypocritical as well, when you're at the same time burning coal. Second, Denmark's contribution to global warming is infinitesimal, let's focus on the United States and China who's the biggest polluters, by far. You don't cut the snake's tail.

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