This is from BBC which is generally considered a reliable source. Even if the referendum is illegal, it doesn't justify violence against peaceful protesters.
Of course there are injured people, including policemen. If you start a revolt, you can expect problems. What do you expect, peaceful anarchy? Police is acting after a Court order, ensuring the rule of law.
What does Spain gain from using violence ?
Can't they just ignore the results on the basis it's illegal ?
I don't get the point of the violence used to stop the ref. The ref is illegal. The hypothetical declaration of independence is illegal, invalid and likely never accepted by anyone (not in Europe not in the world) why the use of violence to stop the ref game? This whole situation is senseless from both sides but it is obvious who is the side willing to use violence.
I think this is about establishing that Catalonia doesn't want to be part of Spain on the current terms. If that's establish in a referendum (of any form) then they will have leverage to renegotiate their relation with Spain (much like Scotland). Spain has a lot to lose from that since Catalonia is an economic giant within Spain. So even violent quenching has better optics than allowing the referendum.
I don't get the point of the violence used to stop the ref. The ref is illegal. The hypothetical declaration of independence is illegal, invalid and likely never accepted by anyone (not in Europe not in the world) why the use of violence to stop the ref game? This whole situation is senseless from both sides but it is obvious who is the side willing to use violence.
Isn't there something in the UN declaration of rights about self-determination.
The sovereignty of Spain falls on all Spanish citizens. If you allow a referendum on such topic in a part of Spain, it doesn't matter the result because you're accepting implicitly that a part of Spain can rule over the whole.
Why? I don't follow your idea. Could you explain?
What part you don't understand?
I'll try again.
All Spaniards have voice & vote about sovereignty, not just a bunch of Spaniards.
I don't get the point of the violence used to stop the ref. The ref is illegal. The hypothetical declaration of independence is illegal, invalid and likely never accepted by anyone (not in Europe not in the world) why the use of violence to stop the ref game? This whole situation is senseless from both sides but it is obvious who is the side willing to use violence.
This is one car out of several of the Guardia Civil:
I don't get the point of the violence used to stop the ref. The ref is illegal. The hypothetical declaration of independence is illegal, invalid and likely never accepted by anyone (not in Europe not in the world) why the use of violence to stop the ref game? This whole situation is senseless from both sides but it is obvious who is the side willing to use violence.
The Spanish government seems to be in a lose-lose situation. If they don't stop the referendum, positive results will be used to further the independence movement. If they do try to stop it, the videos we're watching will be used to further the independence movement.
If there are positive results then those people have chosen independence. So let them be independent. Anything else is despotism.
> A democratic government derives it's legitimacy from the fact the people they govern choose to be governed by them. If the people obviously do not want this government, then isn't it the government that's obviously illegitimate ? Spain has chosen to be governed by the current government. Democracy doesn't mean that you always get the way you want if the majority wants something else...
> Spain has chosen to be governed by the current government. I mean, sort of yes, but also Catalonia was annexed within living memory.
> The ref is illegal. The hypothetical declaration of independence is illegal How can they be illegal ? A democratic government derives it's legitimacy from the fact the people they govern choose to be governed by them. If the people obviously do not want this government, then isn't it the government that's obviously illegitimate ? 'The people' are the source of power, they just outsource it to a smaller group of peo…
The people of the democratic government democratically voted for the part of the Spanish Constitution that bars this kind of unilateral declaration of independence. States in spain are incapable of declaring independence from the national government. This was a democratic process. A democratic process inside one state, just to get that state to say it is separate, doesn't change that. So the parent's question still s…
The constitution was voted soon after the dictatorship ended. Times have changed greatly, and there have been several calls to re-write it and adapt it to modern times. However, the Spanish Government has always treated the constitution as a sacred text that can't be changed. BUT in the last few years, those who opposed changing the constitution democratically, used their absolute majority to enforce changes that were beneficial to the electrical, telephone and other services lobbies (which used to be public until they privatised them), and by extension, themselves. There's plenty of information about how high end politicians end up as those lobbies consultants after retiring from politics, a term that's been dubbed "puerta giratoria" or revolving door policy.
And that hypocrisy is what brought this.
