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Law of Jante

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Re: Law of Jante

#61

Post by vonnik »

jernfrost wrote: post #33
vonnik wrote: post #16

Wow. I just learned about this on a visit to Norway. The way it was explained to me, this is one factor that could hold the Norwegians back as they move toward a post-oil economy, because they're going to need to focus on sectors like tech where there's huge variance in talent and outcomes which they'll have to accept to make it work. That said, there was some great activity in Oslo during Innovation Week.

It is a caricature and not exactly how we act in Norway. I work in the Norwegian tech sector and don't really see this as the problem. The problem is more about getting investors to novel ideas. It is much easier to get investors to back crazy ideas in the US than in Norway. Other than that I think Norway has many strengths. It has an efficient government where it is easy and quick to start a company. Unlike the US s…

I totally buy that Norway has many strengths, and like I said, I was really impressed with the entrepreneurs I met there.

I think the problem with cultivating a tech ecosystem in many first-world cities is the lack of capital channeled through sophisticated investors who can deploy it in tech.

That's one factor behind Silicon Valley's continued gravity for international entrepreneurs -- they keep running into the funding gaps in their homelands. Sadly, the Trump administration seems to be making it harder for international talent and international capital to meet in the US.

I lived in Europe for many years, and saw a lot of capital that just wanted a safe real estate bet.

> Most of our billionaires are self made. In fact we have more billionaires per capita than the US and more social mobility.

Sure. But Norway is a country with enormous oil reserves, like the Gulf Emirates. That's basically luck. The question is: How can you build an economy with less/zero dependence on arbitrary allocations of natural resources, especially given that the price of energy is trending toward zero?

Re: Law of Jante

#62

Post by dang »

paulddraper wrote: post #60
dang wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment breaks the HN guidelines badly by bringing extraneous flamebait into a substantive and interesting thread, turning it into a political flamewar. That may not be arson but it is criminal negligence. Please don't do it in HN threads. It's up to each of us to prevent this, just like we don't light cigarettes at gas stations or let campfires smolder in dry forests. That's not hard. I feel like Smokey the Bea…

If you oppose genercism, you cut the thread too late; it's the previous one that discusses large vs small communities ...with zero support or examples. The comment you refer to was the more specific one on that subject.

I considered that, but your comment was the one that really unmoored from the specifics. The parent comment was still tied to the topic, and pretty obviously not intended as an attack on small towns.

The site guidelines say "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." Had you followed that, I bet you wouldn't have reacted the way you did. It's doable but it takes a conscious effort, one that many users (including me) have had to make.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Law of Jante

#63

Post by interfixus »

FelixGommen wrote: post #50
interfixus wrote: post #39

Moderation and a comparatively egalitarian approach are quintessential Danish qualities, all too often thoughtlessly maligned and ridiculed. The fact is, for better or worse, these traits have served us well as a functioning society for the last thousand years, and in my guess, far longer back than that. A few data points: The last Danish regent or head of government to die violently was king Erik Klipping. The date…

Well I think the schleswig-holsteiners would disagree. They fought two wars before they were allowed to decide for themselves:-)

There were complex aspects about both those wars. But they were indisputably fought between Danes and Germans. Schleswig-Holstein was a German duchy under the Danish king, not a paart of Denmark proper.

The second war, in 1864, ended with a huge loss of Danish territory to the emerging German superstate. The northern half of this territory was returned to Denmark in 1920, with the southern remaining German. This was the result of a referendum in the wake of World War 1. Everything was orderly and civilized, and the border region to this day remains a model of how to handle such things without undue upheaval - thus exactly confirming my point above.

Re: Law of Jante

#64

Post by imartin2k »

ThomPete wrote: post #32
imartin2k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a pretty good question, in my opinion. I don't have an answer but it appears initially to be a contradiction. However, obviously it is not. Importantly one should not take these principles literally. Few to no people do this today. I disagree with that few comply. Like with a lot of cultural norms, the compliance with Jante is often happening subconsciously. When a Swedish founder on stage makes a jok…

I didn't say few comply. I said that those few who are successful don't comply :) Pretty important distinction.

You are right, that was my fault, thanks for pointing that out.

I still would disagree though. As a German in Sweden I see a lot of compliance with Jante among people who express aversion against Jante.

One can be humble, not too self-absorbed and not consider oneself the best and most important person on this planet (aka showing basic compliance with Jante), and still be successful. I'd argue that this might even be the way to go for sustainable "growing the pie for everyone" success.

Re: Law of Jante

#65

Post by FelixGommen »

interfixus wrote: post #63
FelixGommen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I think the schleswig-holsteiners would disagree. They fought two wars before they were allowed to decide for themselves:-)

There were complex aspects about both those wars. But they were indisputably fought between Danes and Germans. Schleswig-Holstein was a German duchy under the Danish king, not a paart of Denmark proper. The second war, in 1864, ended with a huge loss of Danish territory to the emerging German superstate. The northern half of this territory was returned to Denmark in 1920, with the southern remaining German. This was…

Well - that is how things evolved - but in the early 800, when the ejderen border was created no one thought of themselves as german.

Re: Law of Jante

#66

Post by interfixus »

FelixGommen wrote: post #65
interfixus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were complex aspects about both those wars. But they were indisputably fought between Danes and Germans. Schleswig-Holstein was a German duchy under the Danish king, not a paart of Denmark proper. The second war, in 1864, ended with a huge loss of Danish territory to the emerging German superstate. The northern half of this territory was returned to Denmark in 1920, with the southern remaining German. This was…

Well - that is how things evolved - but in the early 800, when the ejderen border was created no one thought of themselves as german.

Probably not. Although I am getting ever more suspicious about the latter day dogma about the nation as a purely modern invention. Denmark was well enough defined and understood a thousand years ago.
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