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Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

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Re: Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

#31

Post by heresy »

neilk wrote: post #14

One of your problems is that you are judging yourself by your natural abilities. I think this a trap that a lot of smart people fall into, perhaps being used to being the kid who always gets the gold star. There are studies that show that children who are praised for being "smart" stop working hard, because that threatens their self-image. Children who are praised for working hard go on to greater successes. But back…

That's one problem with reading too much into people's commentary and ideas here. It's been through so many filters.

Who knows how long they spent refining that comment?

Seeing the end product is always more impressive than the beginning.

At least personally, if something I did is "good", it's because its been through a couple of iterations, you can bet it was ugly as sin first time round.

The problem is that you often don't get to see the intermediate steps.

Prototype -> MAGIC HAPPENS -> Polished Product

The MAGIC HAPPENS portion is what I find really interesting, you can learn a lot about how people think if you get to see how they refine their ideas over time.

And it's all sweat equity. Always. Don't let people try to bullshit you that it's not. If I've learned one thing from many people smarter and more successful than I am, its that they're always doing something moving them to their goals, and they never give up no matter how many times they fail.

Re: Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

#32

Post by nmftt »

No, not really. I actually feel underwhelmed quite frequently e.g. the reddit "fundraising" story two weeks ago. Don't get me wrong there are some advanced topics being discussed sometimes. But most of the time it's either opinion or layman's level non-technology topics.

But I also don't have a strictly CS background. I generally try not to express myself negatively though, but instead value the good parts and recognize that YC/HN is what it is.

Re: Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

#34

Post by photon_off »

phaedrus wrote: post #13

I don't get that feeling from HN, but I get the exact feeling you describe when (trying to) read MathOverflow.com. For some reason the level of math being discussed there has quickly risen to such a rarefied atmosphere that I although go there out of interest and a desire to learn, I come away feeling I can't keep up.

"although I go there out of interest and a desire to learn, I come away feeling I can't keep up"

That's the exact experience.

Re: Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

#35

Post by neilk »

photon_off wrote: post #28
neilk wrote: post #14

One of your problems is that you are judging yourself by your natural abilities. I think this a trap that a lot of smart people fall into, perhaps being used to being the kid who always gets the gold star. There are studies that show that children who are praised for being "smart" stop working hard, because that threatens their self-image. Children who are praised for working hard go on to greater successes. But back…

Wonderful post. I'm not quite sure I understand the part where working hard might threaten my self-image. Is it because if I try my hardest and fail it would destroy my self-image? I can see how that might be the case. Does the study mention ways to fix this? As for the rest of your post, it was great. Inspirational in the right ways. Thanks.

This was the article that popularized that research about praising children:

http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

Money quote:

> [...] The test was difficult, designed for kids two years ahead of their grade level. Predictably, everyone failed. But again, the two groups of children, divided at random at the study’s start, responded differently. Those praised for their effort on the first test assumed they simply hadn’t focused hard enough on this test. “They got very involved, willing to try every solution to the puzzles,” Dweck recalled. “Many of them remarked, unprovoked, ‘This is my favorite test.’ ” Not so for those praised for their smarts. They assumed their failure was evidence that they weren’t really smart at all. “Just watching them, you could see the strain. They were sweating and miserable.”

Sound familiar?

Anyway... I'm glad if my experience or insights help, but the truth is, I'm not one of those devil-may-care trailblazers. At least, not as often as I would like. I'm more usually the naysayer who wants to rewrite it in a functional language. ;) I haven't even gotten as far as you have when it comes to creating my own way in the world.

Re: Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

#36

Post by galois »

photon_off wrote: post #21
pg wrote: post #3

You have to consider the number of users. HN now gets 60k unique visitors on weekdays. That's a decent sized stadium full of people. Of course they seem overwhelming collectively, but most individuals are only experts in a few areas. If it makes you feel any better, my biggest worry about this site is the opposite: that the median awesomeness is decreasing as the number of users increases. If you want to feel less ov…

While writing, it occurred to me that this might be the primary effect. There appears to be some sort of counter in my head that counts awesome comments. There is no counter, however, for number of awesome users, or number non-awesome comments. I ignore them without effort. But due to this selection bias, the awesomeness counter gets to such a big number that it's quite overwhelming, and it feels that 100% of comment…

What makes you think you're talented? You say people have always told you you were a smart kid. Do you have any actual achievements to back this up?

I come on here and find that the vast majority of people are well below my intelligence level. I find that this site is basically a bunch of talentless wantrepreneurial pundits. I come on here to test my patience with idiotic circlejerks - praise Apple, bash Facebook, on and on. Most people I know with real talent feel similarly about HN. Heck, I even know YC guys who feel this way about it.

Re: Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

#37

Post by sliverstorm »

1) There will always be someone better or smarter or versed in more languages than you. Probably a lot of them, in fact, and they will probably be a lot better. You just have to learn to accept that.

2) You are young; not everyone here is as young as you are. Some of the people you see as rivaling yourself could in fact be your elders, who are naturally a step ahead of you, and whose place you will assume in the future

3) Big fish. Little pond. Happens to me all the damn time. Fortunately I realized a while back anytime I find I'm the big fish, that means it's time for me to get out of my little pond and find the really big fish.

Re: Ask HN: Does reading HN ever make you feel like shit?

#38

Post by photon_off »

neilk wrote: post #35
photon_off wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderful post. I'm not quite sure I understand the part where working hard might threaten my self-image. Is it because if I try my hardest and fail it would destroy my self-image? I can see how that might be the case. Does the study mention ways to fix this? As for the rest of your post, it was great. Inspirational in the right ways. Thanks.

This was the article that popularized that research about praising children: http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/ Money quote: > [...] The test was difficult, designed for kids two years ahead of their grade level. Predictably, everyone failed. But again, the two groups of children, divided at random at the study’s start, responded differently. Those praised for their effort on the first test assumed they simply had…

Yes, it sounds familiar. I think I am too frequently self appraising and not as frequently doing, well, whatever the happy kids were doing. Just going with the flow, I suppose?
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