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Law of Jante

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Re: Law of Jante

#11

Post by chickenfries »

paulddraper wrote: post #8
ThomPete wrote: post #2

As a Dane, this is what I grew up with. One of the reasons I love living in New York is that it's simply non-existent. However, I do think the Law of Jante exists in most small communities where being the same is considered a virtue.

> However, I do think the Law of Jante exists in most small communities I live in a small community, and I think the opposite. What voters vote for wealth redistribution? Mostly urban areas. Where does Antifa corner someone with bad speech and beat them up? Urban areas. Where does gang violence (epitome of contrived us vs. them) happen? Urban areas.

> What voters vote for wealth redistribution? Mostly urban areas.

What do any of those examples have to do with Jante? You think gang violence is because people are trying to stop other people from rising out of poverty, rather than someone trying to rise out of poverty through crime? Please tell me you don't think gang bangers are out there telling kids not to go to school because of Jante. That's hilarious.

Re: Law of Jante

#12

Post by ThomPete »

paulddraper wrote: post #8
ThomPete wrote: post #2

As a Dane, this is what I grew up with. One of the reasons I love living in New York is that it's simply non-existent. However, I do think the Law of Jante exists in most small communities where being the same is considered a virtue.

> However, I do think the Law of Jante exists in most small communities I live in a small community, and I think the opposite. What voters vote for wealth redistribution? Mostly urban areas. Where does Antifa corner someone with bad speech and beat them up? Urban areas. Where does gang violence (epitome of contrived us vs. them) happen? Urban areas.

Not sure what you mean. How is it related to Jante?

Re: Law of Jante

#14

Post by paulddraper »

chickenfries wrote: post #11
paulddraper wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, I do think the Law of Jante exists in most small communities I live in a small community, and I think the opposite. What voters vote for wealth redistribution? Mostly urban areas. Where does Antifa corner someone with bad speech and beat them up? Urban areas. Where does gang violence (epitome of contrived us vs. them) happen? Urban areas.

> What voters vote for wealth redistribution? Mostly urban areas. What do any of those examples have to do with Jante? You think gang violence is because people are trying to stop other people from rising out of poverty, rather than someone trying to rise out of poverty through crime? Please tell me you don't think gang bangers are out there telling kids not to go to school because of Jante. That's hilarious.

> What voters vote for wealth redistribution?

1. You're not to think you are anything special.

6. You're not to think you are more important than we are.

> Where does Antifa corner someone with bad speech and beat them up?

4. You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.

> Where does gang violence (epitome of contrived us vs. them) happen?

2. You're not to think you are as good as we are.

8. You're not to laugh at us.

9. You're not to think anyone cares about you.

---

> You think gang violence is because people are trying to stop other people from rising out of poverty, rather than someone trying to rise out of poverty through crime?

Tomato, tomato. First, gang activity is perceived to be zero-sum; a gang protects its territory. Second, vengence is primarily about hurting the other guy, not helping yourself.

Re: Law of Jante

#15

Post by imartin2k »

As a German living in Sweden since more than a decade ago, I've often appreciated the impact the Law of Jante has on Swedish culture. However, at least in central Stockholm, many people nowadays express aversion against the Jante Law, as they associate it with the old socialist Sweden in which many of the freedoms (and choices) of today apparently didn't exist. I'd assume though that it still works as a guiding principle in many decisions Swedes make and behavior they demonstrate - no matter what they publicly say about this philosophy. Compared to Germans and many other cultures I know, Swedes are pretty good at not taking themselves too seriously, which I consider to be a result of Jante.

Re: Law of Jante

#16

Post by vonnik »

Wow. I just learned about this on a visit to Norway. The way it was explained to me, this is one factor that could hold the Norwegians back as they move toward a post-oil economy, because they're going to need to focus on sectors like tech where there's huge variance in talent and outcomes which they'll have to accept to make it work. That said, there was some great activity in Oslo during Innovation Week.

Re: Law of Jante

#17

Post by imartin2k »

ThomPete wrote: post #6
diminish wrote: post #4

How then in Sweden we have a startup boom?

Because it has nothing to do with the Jante Law. Those who succeed don't comply to it.

That's actually a pretty good question, in my opinion. I don't have an answer but it appears initially to be a contradiction. However, obviously it is not. Importantly one should not take these principles literally. Few to no people do this today.

I disagree with that few comply. Like with a lot of cultural norms, the compliance with Jante is often happening subconsciously. When a Swedish founder on stage makes a joke about herself/himself (and thereby becomes instantly likeable), that could be one result of Jante.

Re: Law of Jante

#18

Post by asdfasfhretwt »

chc wrote: post #7
pdog wrote: post #5

You can condense the ten rules down to one: 1. You're not to think.

I think "Be humble" would be a better one-line version. They're basically about not believing oneself superior to others.

Not really. Notice the stuff about you not being better than us or having anything to teach us. Janteloven has the flip side that everyone thinks that they have nothing to learn.

Re: Law of Jante

#19

Post by vim_wannabe »

chc wrote: post #7
pdog wrote: post #5

You can condense the ten rules down to one: 1. You're not to think.

I think "Be humble" would be a better one-line version. They're basically about not believing oneself superior to others.

Or maybe: you are not to give reasons (display of wealth or whatever) for other people to think of you as someone who would feel superior to others.

Re: Law of Jante

#20

Post by abiox »

paulddraper wrote: post #14
chickenfries wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What voters vote for wealth redistribution? Mostly urban areas. What do any of those examples have to do with Jante? You think gang violence is because people are trying to stop other people from rising out of poverty, rather than someone trying to rise out of poverty through crime? Please tell me you don't think gang bangers are out there telling kids not to go to school because of Jante. That's hilarious.

> What voters vote for wealth redistribution? 1. You're not to think you are anything special. 6. You're not to think you are more important than we are. > Where does Antifa corner someone with bad speech and beat them up? 4. You're not to imagine yourself better than we are. > Where does gang violence (epitome of contrived us vs. them) happen? 2. You're not to think you are as good as we are. 8. You're not to laugh…

so, jante's 'be humble' is actually coded rationalization for violence. what a world.

for some reason this reminds me of a time when a few internet eccentrics were trying to suggest that hegel's dialetic was some kind of freemason/illuminati conspiracy theory.

in some ways jante isn't all that different from japanese wa, or really even the attitudes of many rural americans.

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