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Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your startup was venture-backed, wouldn't the risk lie on the VCs instead of you?

In the USA, paid health insurance is tied to one's choice of employment, unless one declines the employer's coverage. Whom are you expecting to pay for health insurance if one hypothetically quits working for Google and starts their own one man/woman company? Or is this not factor in as a risk in your opinion?

>Whom are you expecting to pay for health insurance if one hypothetically quits working for Google and starts their own one man/woman company?

Um, yourself? I have an ACA plan. It handles all the catastrophic stuff, and has a very reasonable deductible. It costs me ~$360/mo. Certainly this is a different ball of wax with a family (figure more around $1100-1400/mo for a reasonable plan) that has dependents.

In my case I quit working eons ago. I bought health insurance via a state marketplace (RomneyCare). My total costs (business insurance, legal, marketing) were less than $10K. I was profitable at the end of month two. At the end of year one, even with expenses I was making 70% more than I could as an employee in most companies in Boston (and around what I could theoretically get at Google, if they would even give me the time of day). It's been 5 years, and I still question why I didn't do it earlier. Worst case I had two years of savings in the bank from average-paying software jobs.

You don't have to do crazy things that require millions of dollars. I'm working on a "big thing" (to me) now that will require ~3000 hours of development time to launch, but I'm doing it all myself, and my costs are $10-15K and learning some new skills. Though the very real potential is for it to easily replace business one, and put my income well above what even the Valley could ever pay me. I wouldn't of done that quitting a job though -- that's something I would build on the side and launch while still employed, and only quit when it's clear the revenue will cover expenses.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#32
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

If you take the total spend on welfare, and divide it by the number of people who claim benefits, you get $24 per day. https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/04/the-aver... > The reality, expressed mathematically, is: Total Spending On “Welfare”/Those who receive benefits = $24.77 per day. That's a lot less than $168. I'd be interested to know where your numbers come from.

We spend close to a trillion dollars on all means-tested welfare programs in the US, counting all levels of government. Just SNAP for example, as of 2015, was at $75 billion per year; each state then has their own various additional food programs, and typically cities do as well. Medicaid, by far the largest single program, was $545 billion for 2015.

There are approximately 16 million households that qualify as poor in the US. Households that exceed the poverty line do draw some benefits as well obviously, so it's not strictly those 16m poorest households pulling against the $1 trillion (which is to say, those 16m households are not each claiming ~$61k in annual benefits).

If you instead distribute that figure among the bottom quarter of adults - in terms of income - under the age of ~65 (over 65 most are drawing on Medicare), you get to something in the neighborhood of $20,000 per adult averaged. Per household you're going to be closer to $36k to $40k (eg the bottom 25m households * $40,000 per year).

Just the various healthcare programs utilized by the poorest 16m households - including Medicaid, CHIP, etc - is likely to be over $25,000 per year per household (not per person obviously).

The maximum welfare benefits a poor person in the US can draw annually, then reasonably aligns with the median state figure the Washington Post was quoting at ~$28,800 (again, it varies by state, some are far higher than others).

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#33
post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

The "free" healthcare you receive often has big, gaping flaws that cost you dearly when you can afford it the least. Single payer systems generally avoid these problems, thus while we do spend significantly more tax dollars on healthcare, the common person in the US lives a shorter, sicker life than those in single payer countries.

Housing programs are also often unavailable, if you were lucky enough to have got in years ago and stay in compliance with the requirements, then good for you. Most people who need housing assistance will never receive it.

Food support (SNAP, EBT & WIC) is essentially only for families, single people & couples get minimal assistance.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#34
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you arrive to the $25k figure?

Per The Washington Post at least 10 states come in above the $35,000 line per year in terms of welfare benefits packages (those include eg Massachusetts, Hawaii, Connecticut, NY, etc). The national median is near $28,800, again per the Washington Post (Michigan, Ohio and North Carolina are at that level). CATO's numbers also match the Post's. They did a 2013 follow-up study to a prior 1995 study they did of work vs w…

These Cato ‘welfare package’ papers have been circulating for a long time and are misleading. Their calculations wind up being for a maximum amount of benefits someone could receive if their life circumstances happened to fit a multitude of criteria. In reality someone falling on hard times would only qualify for a small fraction of those amounts.

Here are two articles that dig into how the Cato numbers are technically possible but not useful for having a real dialogue about the benefits people wind up receiving in real life:

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2015/feb/0...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/...

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

Welfare is capped at a maximum of 5 years, and unemployment insurance - which you don't qualify for if you quit your job - is capped at even less. Meanwhile student loan payments pile up and can be used to garnish your wages and social security. The Scandinavian countries clearly have far more generous social safety nets.

Comments here have blown up but almost everyone is missing one of the most important points: dollars spent do not determine how good a social safety net is.

There are estimates NYC spends >$40k/year/homeless-w-mental-illness with no evidence their situation has improved. In fact, it might be getting worse!

Social safety and healthcare in America is broken. The War on Poverty has spent 10s of trillions, and our healthcare costs are the most outrageous in the world. That doesn't mean we have a good social safety net.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#36
post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

Oh boy---

1. Try to find a section 8 housing voucher, and then try to find a place that will accept it. (Free housing takes years to get in most cases. Most counties closed the application process years ago. Meaning you can't even apply for Free Housing.)

2. Try to find a doctor who accepts Medicare/Medi-cal. Yes--when you have that heart attack, you can go to the hospital. Most private sector doctors will not take your free healthcare though.

3. Food Stamps. You are correct. There's a pretty strict formulary, and a lot of grocery stores won't accept food stamps. (Bill Clinton made it very difficult to receive food stamps. Obama felt poor people should be feed, and the process shouldn't be degrading. Who knows what Trump will do to the program.)

4. Work training? Where? Some states had ROPE. I believe they still offer Typing Classes?

The United States has a horrid, degrading social safety net.

I can't think a country with our wealth that has more Homeless.

I hope you will never find out first hand just how terrible our system is. You will look back on your post and cringe.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#37
post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

Fun fact: most Swedes are covered by unemployment insurance, which gives you 70-80% of the income from your last job for a year.[1] I imagine this helps, as it's not only a safety net if your startup tanks, but also a runway for starting risky ventures. [1] https://www.justlanded.se/english/Sweden/Sweden-Guide/Jobs/U...

In the US you can't collect unemployment if you quit and you have to demonstrate that you're looking for a job. Are either of those the case in Sweden?

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#38
post #2

The subtitle is misleading. >How a tiny country with high government spending bred a large number of vibrant young businesses The article then goes on to attribute almost all of Sweden's success to deregulation and anti-monopoly laws---i.e., less government intervention ∝ more startup success.

And it shouldn't all be characterized as success. I wonder who in this thread has actually worked in Sweden before... I've had clients there and worked from co-working spaces, and I saw more fucking around and play time and work not getting done than I've ever seen admitted.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#39
post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

Fun fact: most Swedes are covered by unemployment insurance, which gives you 70-80% of the income from your last job for a year.[1] I imagine this helps, as it's not only a safety net if your startup tanks, but also a runway for starting risky ventures. [1] https://www.justlanded.se/english/Sweden/Sweden-Guide/Jobs/U...

If you own the company that tanks it is harder to get the unemployment insurance [1] (in Swedish) but it is possible. The 80% maxes out at 18 700 SEK / month ($2300) before tax.

[1] https://www.foretagande.se/a-kassa-for-foretagare-sa-fungera...

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#40
post #2

The subtitle is misleading. >How a tiny country with high government spending bred a large number of vibrant young businesses The article then goes on to attribute almost all of Sweden's success to deregulation and anti-monopoly laws---i.e., less government intervention ∝ more startup success.

And it shouldn't all be characterized as success. I wonder who in this thread has actually worked in Sweden before... I've had clients there and worked from co-working spaces, and I saw more fucking around and play time and work not getting done than I've ever seen admitted.

It sounds so dismal. I'll stick to my cubicle and continue staring at my screen for 12 hours a day. Thanks but no thanks amirigt?
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