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Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

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Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#201
post #161
post #72

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Have you ever submitted a payment or received a payment and seen it marked as "pending". That's likely the result of a delay due to interbank transfers. Real time settlement is something theoretically possible with central banking using something like Fedwire, but in practice most banks use a third party clearinghouse like CHIPS. Additionally, if you have funds in USD and you need to make a payment in EUR, you'll pro…

I participated in writing a money transfer service. There's a number of steps, and the actual transfer is just one of them. There can be multiple identity verification checks, and bank authorizations. Each bank has their own internal API, etc. Sometimes their API is just randomly down, if it is some terrible foreign bank. I know for a fact that Bitcoin's transaction time is not "real time," so why would Ripple's be?

Because bitcoin relies on proof of work in order to determine consensus. Usually vendors require X confirmations, and confirmations happen every 10 minutes of so (every time a block is mined).

Ripple doesn't use proof of work, it relies on a web of trust. So, in order to transfer money from Bank A to Bank B, it relies on Bank A to have some path to Bank B that is trusted. If Bank A and Bank B don't trust each other, but both trust Bank C, then the money is routed through Bank C.

Not sure what you mean by identity verification, if you're talking about for the customers, then they'd still need to have their identity verified at the bank (for purposes of Ripple, a bank is a ripple Gateway, but not all gateways are banks). Honestly, I'm an armchair expert in money transfer systems -- pretty familiar with Ripple, but less familiar with other systems.

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#202

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The tech isn't going to die, it's just not going to change the world in any sexy way. Maersk is using it for something as boring as secure claims for containers to fight corruption in shipping. In government we're looking into running things like the land ownership registry and other public records on the tech. Not because it's hip, but because it'll save employee resources when we have to perform less audits, and be…

Property title, availability of airspace, really any complex system that requires mutual cooperation (or at least awareness) could benefit from uniform distributed ledger technology.

Aren't these already solved though?

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#203

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they produce security of distributed decentralized database and continued operation of payment platform on top of it.

There's nothing really produced as there's no product, the software is running a service. Without the service, there is nothing.

Mining by definition produces cryptocurrencies, which is a 'product'.

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#204

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That's a very very small amount, real currency markets do trillions a day, bitcoin is the size of a large company. He's totally right, that's a small liquid market when compared to the real markets. If you tried to dump 10 million in bitcoin all at once, there's a good chance you're going to crash the market; 10 million wouldn't even move the price in the EURUSD.

Large cap stocks are not generally considered to be illiquid investments, even though they're much smaller than major currency markets.

Because there are thousands of stocks in the market, whereas BTC is about half the entire crypto market; huge difference.

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#205
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very very small amount, real currency markets do trillions a day, bitcoin is the size of a large company. He's totally right, that's a small liquid market when compared to the real markets. If you tried to dump 10 million in bitcoin all at once, there's a good chance you're going to crash the market; 10 million wouldn't even move the price in the EURUSD.

« That's a very very small amount, real currency markets do trillions a day » It is. But that's not what partiallypro and I were discussing. We argued about whether selling "millions" would crash BTC or not. « He's totally right » Did you even read the link I posted? Even if you look at only the BTC/USD pair, $10M represents merely ~1% of the volume sold DAILY on the top 6 exchanges (~$800M). You would probably need…

I think you're confusing daily volume with volume available at any one time. Read what I said, dump 10 mil at once. Just because you can trade 10 million in a day doesn't mean the market can handle a 10 million dollar order in one shot without massive slippage due to lack of liquidity. You could drop a 50 million dollar order on the EURUSD and you might maybe move the market 1 point, but a mere 10 million would instantly cause a large swing of perhaps 10% in the bitcoin market, that's why it's so volatile, it's a small market.

It's so small you have individual holders the community now calls whales who can individually manipulate the price with buy and sell walls; no individual can do anything remotely like that in the FX market. One because they don't have enough money, and two because such market manipulation is illegal.

You'd need to spread your purchase or sale out over the day to avoid massive slippage for an order that big because there just isn't enough liquidity to absorb it without the moving the price. 10 mill is about 2500 coins, go look at the order book on any exchange, a purchase that large is going to massively move the price, looks to be possibly 300-400 dollars you'd move the market with that one order. 50 million would certainly crash/bubble the market.

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing really produced as there's no product, the software is running a service. Without the service, there is nothing.

Mining by definition produces cryptocurrencies, which is a 'product'.

Not after subsidy has played out. That's a temporary state of affairs.

Mining provides economic cost of reorg as a product, something people in the bitcoin space call "security."

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#207
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property title, availability of airspace, really any complex system that requires mutual cooperation (or at least awareness) could benefit from uniform distributed ledger technology.

can you link any property title stuff? do you mean commercial residential or both?

Sorry just seeing this now. Both, actually.

Avi Spielman, in "Blockchain: Digitally Rebuilding the Real Estate Industry" does a terrific job addressing and exploring "aspect(s)- recording property titles- by comparing the benefits and limitations of a blockchain with those of the current record keeping system."

dci.mit.edu/assets/papers/spielman_thesis.pdfdci.mit.edu/assets/papers/spielman_thesis.pdf

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property title, availability of airspace, really any complex system that requires mutual cooperation (or at least awareness) could benefit from uniform distributed ledger technology.

How would blockchains help with property title management?

For a comprehensive answer see Avi Spielman's thesis, in "Blockchain: Digitally Rebuilding the Real Estate Industry"

"The research to date leads to the following conclusions: A blockchain title recording system is the future of title record keeping and would provide immediate benefits over the current title recording system, with additional benefits accruing in the future as blockchain technology grows in acceptance. However, at the moment, these benefits do not yet outweigh the costs and challenges associated with implementing a prototype blockchain title registry system in Davidson County, or elsewhere in the country. That being said, steps can, and should be taken now to lay the foundation for a blockchain system."

dci.mit.edu/assets/papers/spielman_thesis.pdfdci.mit.edu/assets/papers/spielman_thesis.pdf

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#209
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

« That's a very very small amount, real currency markets do trillions a day » It is. But that's not what partiallypro and I were discussing. We argued about whether selling "millions" would crash BTC or not. « He's totally right » Did you even read the link I posted? Even if you look at only the BTC/USD pair, $10M represents merely ~1% of the volume sold DAILY on the top 6 exchanges (~$800M). You would probably need…

I think you're confusing daily volume with volume available at any one time. Read what I said, dump 10 mil at once. Just because you can trade 10 million in a day doesn't mean the market can handle a 10 million dollar order in one shot without massive slippage due to lack of liquidity. You could drop a 50 million dollar order on the EURUSD and you might maybe move the market 1 point, but a mere 10 million would insta…

I make a living trading BTC. I know the difference.

The OP mentioned selling in a day, not at once: «I doubt you could liquidate millions of dollars of bitcoin IN A DAY...» This is what I commented on.

You changed the topic and started talking about selling all at once, which would of course eat a bunch of bids. However even doing this wouldn't "crash the market." The order books are deeper than you think. It's hard to find examples, because it's plain dumb to market-sell this much in one order. But I found a ~1150 BTC sell on Bitstamp around 3pm on September 13 and it barely moved the price: https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg5zig1-minzczs...

It would eat even lower bids on exchanges with less volume/thinner books, but still wouldn't crash the market. For example some idiot sold 1200 BTC in two market-sells of 600 BTC each, 30min apart yesterday on Gemini; and although it ate all the bids from $4100 to $3400, twice!, it didn't "crash the market". Other exchanges didn't react. Subsequent trades resumed exactly where the price was before ($4100).

Re: Fidelity CEO Abigail Johnson says the company is mining cryptocurrencies

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they produce security of distributed decentralized database and continued operation of payment platform on top of it.

There's nothing really produced as there's no product, the software is running a service. Without the service, there is nothing.

> there's no product

> running a service

i don't know how to put it for you mate.. service can be a product? you know, like this site where people friend each other and share shit nobody cares about, what's it called.. facebook?

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