Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 204 posts

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#21

Post by banned1 »

adventured wrote: post #15
nikanj wrote: post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

How did you arrive to the $25k figure?

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#22

Post by DanBC »

adventured wrote: post #15
nikanj wrote: post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

If you take the total spend on welfare, and divide it by the number of people who claim benefits, you get $24 per day.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/05/04/the-aver...

> The reality, expressed mathematically, is: Total Spending On “Welfare”/Those who receive benefits = $24.77 per day. That's a lot less than $168.

I'd be interested to know where your numbers come from.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#23

Post by kiith_naabal »

nikanj wrote: post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

Fun fact: most Swedes are covered by unemployment insurance, which gives you 70-80% of the income from your last job for a year.[1] I imagine this helps, as it's not only a safety net if your startup tanks, but also a runway for starting risky ventures.

[1] https://www.justlanded.se/english/Sweden/Sweden-Guide/Jobs/U...

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#24

Post by adventured »

banned1 wrote: post #21
adventured wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

How did you arrive to the $25k figure?

Per The Washington Post at least 10 states come in above the $35,000 line per year in terms of welfare benefits packages (those include eg Massachusetts, Hawaii, Connecticut, NY, etc). The national median is near $28,800, again per the Washington Post (Michigan, Ohio and North Carolina are at that level).

CATO's numbers also match the Post's. They did a 2013 follow-up study to a prior 1995 study they did of work vs welfare trade-offs on a state by state basis. There is probably no more comprehensive source than their study, that I'm aware of.

"this study seeks to determine the approximate level of benefits that a typical welfare family, consisting of a single mother with two children, might receive"

[34 states come in above $25,000]

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/the_wo...

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#25

Post by [deleted] »

wnoise wrote: post #7
gragas wrote: post #2

The subtitle is misleading. >How a tiny country with high government spending bred a large number of vibrant young businesses The article then goes on to attribute almost all of Sweden's success to deregulation and anti-monopoly laws---i.e., less government intervention ∝ more startup success.

anti-monopoly laws seem to be the exact opposite of "less government regulation".

[deleted]

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#27

Post by RealityNow »

adventured wrote: post #15
nikanj wrote: post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

Welfare is capped at a maximum of 5 years, and unemployment insurance - which you don't qualify for if you quit your job - is capped at even less. Meanwhile student loan payments pile up and can be used to garnish your wages and social security.

The Scandinavian countries clearly have far more generous social safety nets.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#28

Post by kalleboo »

gragas wrote: post #2

The subtitle is misleading. >How a tiny country with high government spending bred a large number of vibrant young businesses The article then goes on to attribute almost all of Sweden's success to deregulation and anti-monopoly laws---i.e., less government intervention ∝ more startup success.

As usual it seems to be an issue not of the size of the regulation but the quality. Although in many areas Sweden has a lot less regulation than the U.S. - you don't need a license to be a hairdresser, taxis are mostly deregulated, etc. It seems all the time I hear about things that are micromanaged legally in the US that are just dealt with by common sense in Sweden.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#29

Post by hiram112 »

adventured wrote: post #15
nikanj wrote: post #4

Completely missed one of the most important points: It's easier to take risks, if those risks actualizing will not destroy your life. In the US, there's very little social safety net to catch you. If you get sick before the startup is big enough, it means personal bankruptcy - and no medical treatment. Missing revenue targets can mean missing student loan payments, missing rent, etc. There's real risk you'll end up h…

> In Sweden, you might end up poor, but the poor are still taken care of. You get your medical treatment, the state pays your rent, and you are guaranteed enough income to buy groceries. Way to propagate an ignorant myth. The US has a massive welfare state and social safety net. The average poor person in the US can typically draw $25,000 to $30,000 in benefits per year depending on the state they live in. Those bene…

I don't think you realize how hard it is to get benefits in the US if you're not already in the system, and especially if you are an able-bodied male.

Were I to quit my job tomorrow, I would not receive unemployment as this goes to only those who lose their job through no fault of their own.

Health insurance, even with ObamaCare, would be based on my last year's income taxes. Thus no health subsidies - 100% out of pocket.

Welfare is probably similar in most states. Section 8, the same. So unless I had a nice stash in the bank, I'd be homeless.

The one exception, I believe, would be SNAP benefits. So I guess I wouldn't starve.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#30

Post by labster »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #17
stevenwoo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, paid health insurance is tied to one's choice of employment, unless one declines the employer's coverage. Whom are you expecting to pay for health insurance if one hypothetically quits working for Google and starts their own one man/woman company? Or is this not factor in as a risk in your opinion?

The fact that health insurance is tied to employment in the us is just as much an argument for getting rid of the taxes and other incentives which led to employers being the dominant provider of health insurance.

Which will in turn largely get rid of health care benefits for employees. Problem solved!
Post reply on HN