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How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

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Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#321

Post by incompatible »

pipio21 wrote: post #99
mabbo wrote: post #61

I just left Barcelona a couple hours ago, the capital of Catalonia. Everywhere you look, Catalan flags, signs demanding 'democracia', demanding freedom. I'm told this is just normal for the region, but if this is normal then independence is eventual.

Well, it is normal since independentists have controlled Catalunya since 40 years ago. It used to be that 20% of the population was independentist through, now is over 50%. For example, they choosed school principals among independentist so now over 85% of them are Catalan language teachers that tend to be independentist. This way kids could be directed to be independentist too. The same happened with the local media…

What does the population in the rest of Spain think about Catalan independence? Would they be happy with Catalonia leaving if its population was in favour of it, or would they prefer that it be forced to remain part of Spain?

Catalonia would have trouble becoming genuinely independent without approval from Spain. Even if they declared independence, and didn't face military action, they'd only have the status of other unrecognized states like Somaliland or to some extent Taiwan.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#322

Post by NetStrikeForce »

euyyn wrote: post #318
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're native Spanish speaker or not, but nacionalidad is nación when talking about a group of people (simplifying as typing from mobile) The count is of about 30 different articles. Here's a comment from El País (hardly pro-indy or pro-catalan) about it: https://elpais.com/diario/2007/07/05/espana/1183586424_85021...

I'm a native speaker, yes. You say "The Spanish Constitution says Catalonia is a nationality". It does indeed (emphasis mine): La Constitución se fundamenta en la indisoluble unidad de la Nación española , patria común e indivisible de todos los españoles, y reconoce y garantiza el derecho a la autonomía de las nacionalidades y regiones que la integran y la solidaridad entre todas ellas. The Andalusian estatuto almos…

That's the thing: The Andalusian hasn't been challenged, while the Catalan is scrutinized to the detail and the party that's now in government gathers 4 million signatures against it: https://elpais.com/elpais/2006/04/25/actualidad/1145953019_8... (They wanted all Spain to vote on the Catalan Estatut!!! Would they do that for all regions???)

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#323

Post by edko »

ahachete wrote: post #315

Let's get the political reasoning straight. Under Spanish Constitution, supreme law in Spain, the right to determine the territory of Spain belongs to all Spaniards (article 2). What some people claim as "democracy" or "the right to vote" is actually removing this right from the rest of Spaniards. Aside from other claims and whether there are political or historical reasons, the voting has been declared illegal by th…

Let me add one thing: the current Spanish Constitution was subject to a referendum in 1978. In Catalonia, it was approved by 90.46% of the votes.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#324

Post by wildmusings »

It doesn't matter that they can circumvent it. The fact that the Spanish government has taken such drastic actions means that the result of the vote will be completely meaningless and illegitimate. Opponents of the referendum who agree with the Spanish government will not participate.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#325

Post by cloakandswagger »

incompatible wrote: post #321
pipio21 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is normal since independentists have controlled Catalunya since 40 years ago. It used to be that 20% of the population was independentist through, now is over 50%. For example, they choosed school principals among independentist so now over 85% of them are Catalan language teachers that tend to be independentist. This way kids could be directed to be independentist too. The same happened with the local media…

What does the population in the rest of Spain think about Catalan independence? Would they be happy with Catalonia leaving if its population was in favour of it, or would they prefer that it be forced to remain part of Spain? Catalonia would have trouble becoming genuinely independent without approval from Spain. Even if they declared independence, and didn't face military action, they'd only have the status of other…

Catalonia is one of the highest earning areas of Spain, constituting about 20% of the nation's GDP. Their secession would be about as well received as New York or California's from the US.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#326

Post by gerdesj »

zanny wrote: post #176
elecbit wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think out of the box. Is moral a law that forbids people speaking? Self-determination is in the human rights and Catalonia has more than 1000 years of history, culture and language. Democracy cannot be illegal, so this banning must be disobbeyed. Without disobbeying, woman and black people would not vote nowadays, so history proves it is a good way to take down immoral legal laws. EDIT: UN experts say that Spain must…

Even the US has precedent on banning speech that will "incite imminent lawless action". And compared to countries like the UK or Germany they are a bastion of free speech. I agree free speech laws in pretty much every country are unethical because they are arrayed in a way to ban speech that might risk the dissolution of the nation, but every single country has those laws because its governments trying to protect the…

"And compared to countries like the UK or Germany they are a bastion of free speech."

Care to elucidate me on what basis that statement lies? I am a UKoGBnNI citizen who has also lived in DE for a few years in the West Germany part in the 70's and 80's and have friends who are native to DE.

In the UK we have laws banning inflammatory speech of various types that are clearly categorised and so does Deutschland. Both countries also, I think, have citizens who pride themselves on being able to pretty much speak their mind freely. I think both are very liberal states in this regard.

I do feel that some of my civil liberties have been eroded over the years but I in no way feel that my right to freedom of speech has been compromised in any way. I may live in a country that (worryingly) has more CCTV cameras pointing at me than you can shake a stick at but I do not believe that my right to express myself coherently and freely is damaged in any way. I'm not happy about say RIPA and co but we have a formal, legalised right to freedom of speech in the UK.

You are obviously not a US citizen because you seem to believe the US is one "thing" or a single country. It isn't and yet it is. It is a federation of states with a few odd bits tacked on (just like the UK - not) which means that there are federal laws, state laws, county laws, city laws, bye laws and made up by someone laws. This is also how most "normal" countries work.

So, where do you live?

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#327

Post by kilburn »

stavros wrote: post #261
kilburn wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, look at these maps [1], that show the results of the general spanish elections since the dissolution of the dictatoship. Do you see the upper-right part that is nearly always different than the majority? That is Catalonia. Catalans also have a different language, a strong sense of being a nation (their "local consitution" says so!), etc.. Money is one of the reasons, but not the only one, not even by…

> Catalans also have a different language, a strong sense of being a nation (their "local consitution" says so!), etc.. And none of those things is being repressed, I have to add. As a Catalan friend pointed out, they speak and teach Catalan in schools, have complete freedom to vote on issues of their region, etc. I have to agree with the GP that it's mostly the economy doing a bit better than the other regions, whic…

Yes they are.

The pro-independence movement didn't really take off until the Spanish Constitutional Court thwarted 17 articles and redacted 27 more from the latest "Catalan constitution" (Estatut). A "constitution" which had been approved by the Catalan Parliament, the Spanish Parliament and the Catalan citizens themselves in a referendum (in that order).

Likewise, the latest Spanish education law (LOMCE) includes an article making it MANDATORY to offer a Spanish-as-the-vehicular-language education if any parents ask for it.

How is that "having complete freedom to vote on issues of their region"? You may mean "... so long as Spain as a whole is fine with them". How complete.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#328

Post by saimiam »

rangibaby wrote: post #279
samstave wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit! People are hiring planes to ship them GPUs!? Jeasus!! Gibson was far more prescient than acknowledged; " the future is already here, but not evenly distributed yet " Wow... I had such opportunity and ability to buy bitcoins in 2012... and I missed that boat.

I downloaded the Bitcoin mining app in 2010, opened it once, got bored of waiting for it to sync with some server, then shut and forgot about it for a few years. It might be a funny story to tell my grandkids if BTC is still around

If Bitcoin is around when your grandkids are of age, even this minute might be a great time to buy Bitcoin. Why miss the same boat twice?

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#329

Post by adventured »

edko wrote: post #323
ahachete wrote: post #315

Let's get the political reasoning straight. Under Spanish Constitution, supreme law in Spain, the right to determine the territory of Spain belongs to all Spaniards (article 2). What some people claim as "democracy" or "the right to vote" is actually removing this right from the rest of Spaniards. Aside from other claims and whether there are political or historical reasons, the voting has been declared illegal by th…

Let me add one thing: the current Spanish Constitution was subject to a referendum in 1978. In Catalonia, it was approved by 90.46% of the votes.

1978, shortly after the dictatorship ended, a time in which Spain was still dominated by cronies from that very dictatorship, and who proceeded to dictate the Constitution.

So in 1978 Catalonia's vote mattered and you're claiming today it does not.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#330

Post by incompatible »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #325
incompatible wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the population in the rest of Spain think about Catalan independence? Would they be happy with Catalonia leaving if its population was in favour of it, or would they prefer that it be forced to remain part of Spain? Catalonia would have trouble becoming genuinely independent without approval from Spain. Even if they declared independence, and didn't face military action, they'd only have the status of other…

Catalonia is one of the highest earning areas of Spain, constituting about 20% of the nation's GDP. Their secession would be about as well received as New York or California's from the US.

I have the impression that quite a few conservatives in the US would be thrilled to see New York and California leave, regardless of the economic implications.
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