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How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

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Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#301

Post by NetStrikeForce »

euyyn wrote: post #281
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitutional Court hasn't ruled out yet. Just suspended it while they deliberate. That's why most of the actions taken have been ordered by the Attorney General and not a court... Because the ref is not illegal :)

Why would the TSJC judge be ordering things like taking apps and websites down, if the referendum weren't illegal?

Ask them about it :-) but I could guess their logic:

- They don't want people to vote.

- Maybe if it's suspended you should refrain from going on with it until there's a ruling.

- They know what how they want the ruling to be, so they act like it was done already. They're just working on making it legally sound in the meanwhile.

Choose whichever you prefer, all those are guesses. The fact is that there's no ruling and that's easily verifiable.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#302

Post by NetStrikeForce »

euyyn wrote: post #295
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not a reaction most liberal democracies in the EU would have. MPs all over Europe (Denmark, Switzerland, Finland to name a few) have asked the Spanish government to stop prosecuting and negotiate a referendum.

MPs in Spain have asked the same. Doesn't mean those other countries wouldn't have their judges apply the law. Not only it is the judge's job: it's not even legal for a judge to knowingly allow an illegal action.

The point is those other countries would have allowed the vote.

We don't even have to imagine. It happened recently: Scotland. Or if you allow me to jump the pond: Québec.

Also, indyref not ruled illegal yet so it might not be that clear cut.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#303

Post by euyyn »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #296
euyyn wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Private citizens have been arrested for mirroring the websites with their own resources. I very much would like to see a source for this, and, if the order to arrest them was given by the TSJC judge, what the reasoning was and whether charges were brought.

This guy was arrested in Valencia: https://github.com/GrenderG Tried to find a Twitter thread from his lawyer, but no luck. Check this out: http://www.levante-emv.com/comunitat-valenciana/2017/09/22/p... He was also taken to police premises, put on the phone with someone from Madrid and released. Indicted for a crime here couldn't commit as he's not a civil servant. Also the judge authorised to get his online account…

Thanks for the links! From them, he was asked whether he was under contract by the Generalitat to do it.

If they can't find any evidence of such contract, I expect the charges will be dismissed and his stuff restored.

I don't think the argument that he's not allowed to do it, by his own will with his own funds, will hold in court; if I understand the law correctly. I guess at most he might be in trouble regarding the Ley de Protección de Datos, IANAL and I wouldn't know. In any case if private data-handling is fine and still the law wouldn't allow it, that law needs to be changed.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#304

Post by euyyn »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #297
euyyn wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't be respected by all, not even by all ERC politicians. Don't fall into the trap of thinking Catalonia is somehow free of hypocrites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnMA7KdGxn0

Ok. By the way, can I get your crystal ball? There's this lottery thing...

Your mocking argument is that only magicians can expect people to maintain their views?

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#305

Post by bonzini »

michigan_j_frog wrote: post #275
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but you don't see signs demanding "democracy" or secession (except perhaps in Texas, and not really much there either). That is, while there are confederate flags, there isn't a active, ongoing independence movement in the US south.

But there’s no chance a binding secession referendum would be allowed in the U.S..

How is that different from what is happening in Spain?

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#306

Post by euyyn »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #301
euyyn wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the TSJC judge be ordering things like taking apps and websites down, if the referendum weren't illegal?

Ask them about it :-) but I could guess their logic: - They don't want people to vote. - Maybe if it's suspended you should refrain from going on with it until there's a ruling. - They know what how they want the ruling to be, so they act like it was done already. They're just working on making it legally sound in the meanwhile. Choose whichever you prefer, all those are guesses. The fact is that there's no ruling an…

Luckily all court orders in Spain (like in most or all western countries) are explicitly reasoned in the order itself, so there isn't a need to ask the judge or guess. The people getting served those orders can publish the legal reasoning given.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#307

Post by 6t6t6t6 »

kilburn wrote: post #141
amelius wrote: post #112

As an outsider, it's strange that nobody here seems to question whether the referendum really makes sense. Forgetting about Catalonia for a moment, isn't it fundamentally amoral that a part of the country where prosperity has (by mere chance) concentrated suddenly wants to split off? Isn't this taking wealth-inequality to the next level? Of course the people in a prosperous part of the country want to split off. Abso…

On the one hand, look at these maps [1], that show the results of the general spanish elections since the dissolution of the dictatoship. Do you see the upper-right part that is nearly always different than the majority? That is Catalonia. Catalans also have a different language, a strong sense of being a nation (their "local consitution" says so!), etc.. Money is one of the reasons, but not the only one, not even by…

Being a self-sustainable, and relatively wealthy region is what allows the Independence movement but, as you said, it is not the cause.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#308

Post by gerdesj »

Javimoreno wrote: post #163
bmelton wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm recalling correctly from NPR this morning, nearly 100% of Catalan people under the age of 40 speak Catalan, while very few over the age of 40 do. This is the result of the language having been made illegal, then not illegal, then taught predominately by the school systems. Is it possible the 55% who speak Spanish primarily fall along those demographic lines? Is it also possible that some portion of that 55% sp…

100% of us speak Spanish and actually it's very common to use both languages in a conversation when more than two persons are involved :) it's just natural for most of us. Actually I learned Catalan when I was 18 so I usually speak in Spanish and it is not a problem at all... And I'm very proud of being bilingual. In any case I would love to be able to express better myself in English :)

(anecdote) That precisely describes my personal experience of people in BCN and BDN, at least as a foreigner that keeps coming back as a tourist.

I also have a friend who has been teaching English as a Foreign Language in BCN for at least a decade now, and he and his wife tell a similar story.

"In any case I would love to be able to express better myself in English" - you already have a fluent grasp of English. You spelt it's with an apostrophe which is spot on and come across as a native writer - for a given value of "native" 8) Good skills mate.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#309

Post by KuiN »

gerdesj wrote: post #298
KuiN wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested in any way to help out too. As part of the Scottish independence movement, our Catalonian counterparts are comrades & allies. Other than solidarity protests over here, I'd love to help in some way.

Its a funny old world mate (I'm English) and I despise seeing censorship like this. I will also see what I can find in my toy box to assist Catalunya in expressing themselves democratically. (I would rather GB stayed in one piece but if push came to shove, I'd probably do the same here in similar circumstances - there is no excuse for this heavy handed nonsense)

It's not often I find myself agreeing with a UK unionist but it's a point of honour that the Scottish referendum 2014 passed off largely as an orderly point of democracy. Westminster is often seen as heavy-handed North of the border but everyone is proud of that expression of democracy (however there are still words to be had about subsequent political events!).

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#310

Post by KuiN »

lottin wrote: post #209
KuiN wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested in any way to help out too. As part of the Scottish independence movement, our Catalonian counterparts are comrades & allies. Other than solidarity protests over here, I'd love to help in some way.

Just expressing your solidarity is more than enough. It seems silly but it really gives us strength and determination.

Radical Independence Scotland and friends will be outside the Spanish embassy in Edinburgh, all of Sunday; we absolutely support your right to self determination as the Catalans did during our recent bids for independence. Solidarity, comrade.
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