Live data from Hacker News

Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

coindesk.com

61–70 of 150 posts

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#61
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but does Snowden have any stake?

I'm suspicious of this.

For those of you who are down voting, perhaps you could explain why this case might be different from any other value hype. What happened to trust no one--verify?

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#63

Why does anyone care what Snowden thinks about crypto currency? He was a SharePoint administrator. I don't understand why his opinion is relevant. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for his sacrifice, and I think he deserves to be pardoned.

We got russian bots on hackernews now?

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as interesting a development as zcash is, you need more trust in the 9 people at that one-off ceremony than you do in a central bank. Monero's ring signatures have their drawbacks, but they don't require trust. It is hard to see his rationale for referring to it as an "amateur effort".

There is a tradeoff here that keeps being missed. Ring signatures with small anonymity sets have very serious privacy drawbacks, but they have more sensible assumptions for protecting the monetary base integrity. zk-SNARKs are the opposite: they don't compromise on privacy at all, but require stronger assumptions to protect the monetary base.

ZCash has unsolveable issues, Monero has solveable issues. I don't see that as a tradeoff.

zk-SNARKS have no privacy issues, but to trust ZCash you require absolute trust in the zcash ceremony. This is an issue for many, including me. This ceremony has happened, there is no way for me to prove to myself that the private keys were not stored somewhere. Although I can prove to myself it is decentralised and private, I can't see how I could ever prove to myself that noone can cheat and generate coins with minimal effort, thus devaluing mine. I just have to trust the founders.

Monero's Ring signatures require no trust, but they have privacy problems in the case of small rings. This is solveable by restricting to large rings (as a hard fork will enforce this September[1]), and at that point, I can see how to convince myself that the system is decentralised, private, and noone can generate coins without appropriate mining effort.

[1] https://getmonero.org/2017/09/13/september-15-2017-protocol-...

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#65
post #59

Its curious to see, I travel around a bit and I'm always astounded how many countries still use cash and have backwards banking infrastructure. You'd think transferring money from one account to another should be near instantaneous and require no third party. If bitcoins can shake the rest of the world into the modern age I'm all for it.

> backwards banking infrastructure

You're describing the United States, right?

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#66
post #45
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet ignores the founders of zCash saying they can make a backdoor for police and make it too traceable for criminals. >Green says that he and his fellow researchers are not interested in facilitating criminal activity with Zerocoin. "Zerocoin would give you this incredible privacy guarantee, then we could add on some features which let the police, for instance, to be able to track money laundering. A back door." http…

That's a very weird statement, and I wish there were some more context behind it in the article - is this a cryptographic or protocol-level back door, or is this just the idea that you can start with an anonymous system and add tracing (but you can't start with a visible system and add anonymity)? It could be either, and I'm not sure how to read it.

Zooko explained afterward: https://twitter.com/zooko/status/864341289374023680

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#67

Why does anyone care what Snowden thinks about crypto currency? He was a SharePoint administrator. I don't understand why his opinion is relevant. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for his sacrifice, and I think he deserves to be pardoned.

He was a SharePoint administrator. This is just silly. His skills are clearly way broader and deeper than that.

How is that clear?

It is clear to me that he is brave, principled and committed to privacy. It is not clear to me that his skills extend beyond that of the average sysadmin.

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#68
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before he was known for the NSA leaks he was still a privacy activist who helped teach people about cryptography. It's not totally unrelated, especially since Zcash's selling point is that it offers more privacy than Bitcoin. https://www.forbes.com/sites/runasandvik/2014/05/27/that-one...

ZCash is only as secure as you trust 9 people and their ceremony. There's gotta be a way to do consensus about zero-knowledge proofs that's a little more... you know ... decentralized. https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trust... https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/6a26rh/peter_todd_h... Before you guys start saying, banks don't trust Bitcoin either because transactions are controlled by like…

"If they blacklist your address, your "permissionless" currency starts looking a lot more like a frozen bank account." Interesting aspect. Could you please clariy _who_ could blacklist _what_ address? It's not exactly clear what you were referring to.

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was a SharePoint administrator. This is just silly. His skills are clearly way broader and deeper than that.

How is that clear? It is clear to me that he is brave, principled and committed to privacy. It is not clear to me that his skills extend beyond that of the average sysadmin.

An "average sysadmin" would not be (anywhere near) capable of setting up a VPN so that non-technical journalists can access a considerably sized document stash - but which not even the most powerful and well-funded spy agency on the planet can break into.

For example.

Re: Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

#70
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very weird statement, and I wish there were some more context behind it in the article - is this a cryptographic or protocol-level back door, or is this just the idea that you can start with an anonymous system and add tracing (but you can't start with a visible system and add anonymity)? It could be either, and I'm not sure how to read it.

Zooko explained afterward: https://twitter.com/zooko/status/864341289374023680

That's not an explanation. It's just an assertion they'd not do bad stuff, ignoring what he previously tweeted. Neither is his stuff about it being compatible with law enforcement. A real explanation would follow through the thought and say exactly how they can make zCash "too traceable for criminals".

Especially when Green has his own quote saying they're OK building backdoors for police.

Or maybe that is their entire plan. Say something slightly sketchy, knowing any real criminal will be too paranoid to trust it. Worked for me.

Post reply on HN