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How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

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Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#191

Post by sigotirandolas »

SapphireSun wrote: post #123
amelius wrote: post #112

As an outsider, it's strange that nobody here seems to question whether the referendum really makes sense. Forgetting about Catalonia for a moment, isn't it fundamentally amoral that a part of the country where prosperity has (by mere chance) concentrated suddenly wants to split off? Isn't this taking wealth-inequality to the next level? Of course the people in a prosperous part of the country want to split off. Abso…

The part that makes it even more confusing for me is that their party, Podemos, is a real left party which you'd expect to be against increasing income inequality. I expect that the situation in Spain is much more complex than we give it credit for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podemos_(Spanish_political_par... EDIT: added link, changed "socialist" to "left"

Podemos is a national level party and they are pro-referendum only, they do not have a strong position on independence.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#192

Post by euyyn »

elecbit wrote: post #147
ktzar wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard pro-independence people twisting facts for over 20 years... Not surprised anymore. Democracy is deciding new law based on current law following people's desires... Like it or not, every day meter of Catalan soil belongs as much to a Catalan woman as to an Andalusian man... Nobody in his right mind would say that Catalonia is an oppressed region by Spain's government... Quite the opposite actually.

Democracy is listening the majority of a group, without forgetting and respecting the minorities. You don't argument why Catalonia is not opressed. Banning all the laws emerging from its parliament is not respecting. Sorry Spaniards, we will vote. It's not about you, it's about us. It's not about us feeling superior or supremacist. It's about deciding our way, as we think too different in too many things. We can be g…

> [Catalonia is oppressed:] Banning all the laws emerging from its parliament is not respecting.

Not all laws emerging from its parliament are ruled unconstitutional by the courts. And unconstitutional laws enacted by any parliament in Spain are banned by the courts, Catalonia or not. It's not really a matter of respect.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#193

Post by severino »

pepon wrote: post #184
mabbo wrote: post #61

I just left Barcelona a couple hours ago, the capital of Catalonia. Everywhere you look, Catalan flags, signs demanding 'democracia', demanding freedom. I'm told this is just normal for the region, but if this is normal then independence is eventual.

There are also many many people and windows without flags ;) Once they become an independent country, it will be one where ~50% of the people doesn't want to belong to it. Let's see what kind of "democracia" will they apply there.

Well, that's happening already: half the population does not want to belong to the state. The "democracia" here is you don't vote and never will. What can be worse than that?

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#194

Post by contravariant »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #114
amelius wrote: post #112

As an outsider, it's strange that nobody here seems to question whether the referendum really makes sense. Forgetting about Catalonia for a moment, isn't it fundamentally amoral that a part of the country where prosperity has (by mere chance) concentrated suddenly wants to split off? Isn't this taking wealth-inequality to the next level? Of course the people in a prosperous part of the country want to split off. Abso…

"by mere chance" Is that your opinion, or do the Catalonians and people outside Spain agree?

Does being conveniently located to trade on the Mediterranean sea count as chance or not?

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#195

Post by kgwgk »

pipio21 wrote: post #127
jsdario wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is completely feasible. In fact Spain was the project of many different kingdoms (or "nations" by modern standards): Basque, Aragon/Catalan, Galician and Castilian. Not only that but many modern leftist political parties advocate for self determination freedom within our constitution. So the fact that the Catalan parliament with a simple majority of separatists are claiming unilateral referendum of independence in…

Not true. Spain was the union of three kingdoms: Castilla, Aragon and Navarra. In fact you can see it in the flag, it has a shield with the chains of Navarra, the lion of Leon, the Castle of Castilla and the colors of Aragon(which are the same of Spain and Catalunya flag) over a Granada fruit(for Granada conquest). Basque was never a kingdom,either Galicia or Catalunya. Asturias was a kingdom, later becoming Asturias…

> My grandfather was Basque, he spoke Batua, the original Basque language in his village [...] The language was unified less than 100 years ago [...]

Actually “batua” means “unified” and is the name given to the modern variant that you talk about.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#196

Post by euyyn »

ukoki wrote: post #75
pvaldes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is not the end of the history. Would be naively opening the door to a full hell of pain. Try to give one candy to calm a child having a tantrum in a room full of them and see what happens when the other children realize that crying, breaking toys and banging the head on the wall equals to be rewarded with sweets. You allow somebody to break the law and jump over the constitution just because they are inconso…

So? If they want independence who are we to deny it? If your spouse wants a divorce, if your children wish to disown you — you can't deny them just because it's an inconvenience — it is their right.

Unlike a spouse which is one person with a single will and identity, it's not even clear how to decide who is Catalan enough to have a vote in this.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#197

Post by elecbit »

euyyn wrote: post #178
elecbit wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Catalan here. Quite a bad description, I think. We should remember that Catalonia had its own language forbidden to even speak in the street for 40 years during Franco's dictatorship. Language and culture was kept alive thanks of people keeping it in secrecy. When "democracy" returned, some of the competences they had before the war were returned to the government. After 6 years of demonstrations of 2-3 million (ou…

> Why shouldn't it be allowed to ask people's preferences? Doesn't that happen all the time in polls and in local, regional, and general elections?

Yes, and after last elections the majority of the Catalan parliament is pro-independence. Instead of proclaming independence, a referendum is proposed, which has the support of 80% of the population in Catalonia.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#198

Post by euyyn »

elecbit wrote: post #158
jsdario wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may agree it's really hard, but the response is accurate. It is still possible. These kind of restrictions exist to defend people of tyranny. The same restrictions exists in Catalonian Parliament for things such as changing the "Estatut". It is not right for a simple majority to enforce their will over the people their opposition represent. Therefore the referendum is not legal, nor legitimate.

Tyranny is a group not allowing another group to decide what to do. Hear yourself: "the referendum is not legal". Such a nice view of what democracy is. So willing to vote and say goodbye to this bla-bla-bla-this is not legal, that is not legal. Good bye opressors. My deceased family in the war the dicator won will be really happy if we can finally separate. Too many open wounds you have never tried to heal.

> Tyranny is a group not allowing another group to decide what to do.

It's easier to separate Communists from non-Communists, because each of us gets to vote to only one party, than Catalans from non-Catalans. And even though Communists are a clear minority in Spain, you'd be hard pressed to find one that equates "not having a majority in Congress" with "being victims of a tyranny".

If your family lived under the dictatorship, you should be sensitive to what they (and many others) suffered and fought, to not use lightly words like oppression and tyranny.

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#199

Post by 1000HOMES »

pipio21 wrote: post #127
jsdario wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is completely feasible. In fact Spain was the project of many different kingdoms (or "nations" by modern standards): Basque, Aragon/Catalan, Galician and Castilian. Not only that but many modern leftist political parties advocate for self determination freedom within our constitution. So the fact that the Catalan parliament with a simple majority of separatists are claiming unilateral referendum of independence in…

Not true. Spain was the union of three kingdoms: Castilla, Aragon and Navarra. In fact you can see it in the flag, it has a shield with the chains of Navarra, the lion of Leon, the Castle of Castilla and the colors of Aragon(which are the same of Spain and Catalunya flag) over a Granada fruit(for Granada conquest). Basque was never a kingdom,either Galicia or Catalunya. Asturias was a kingdom, later becoming Asturias…

Just to pick the easiest of your affirmations to disprove [1].

What's next, back to deny our languages and call them dialects? Forbid em them again?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Galicia

Re: How the Catalan government uses IPFS to sidestep Spain's legal block

#200

Post by sigotirandolas »

tcard wrote: post #46
codewithcheese wrote: post #18

It seems shocking that Spain a member of the EU is resorting to these tactics. Can you discuss some of their justifications for doing so?

I'm not a lawyer and I don't have an opinion on the Spanish government's or judicial system's concrete actions to stop a illegal law to take effect, but: the only websites, posters, etc. being seized are those paid for and organized by the Catalan government. Any association, political party, or individual is completely free to campaign for whatever they want, including independence. We have a Spain-wide constitution…

They have also blocked many websites not directly associated to the government. Heck, even the OP mentions the Gateway.ipfs.io HTTP2IPFS gateway being blocked. There are other examples such as:

Assemblea.cat (Assemblea nacional Catalana - Independentist association)

cridaperlademocracia.cat (Website protesting for actions perceived as political repression)

Empaperem.cat (Crowdsourced advertising campaign for the referendum)

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