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IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

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Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am studying in college that has is not known by most people in India, and the official average here is around 18 LPA. I have the stats from the placement unit of our college. For IITB and BITS Pilani, I can confirm from friends it's around 27 LPA. This is one public stat I can find: http://www.selaqui.org/iit-jee/placement.php . Average is 24.67 LPA for CS, and it's from 2011-12. I don't know why you reacted with s…

That is because you are looking at a cherry picked data to make your point. From the link: The department-wise average and highest salaries are shown below. The overall average and highest salaries stand at 8.98 LPA and 68.5 LPA respectively. So the average salary is 8.98 lakh. Unlike what you might like to believe there are many non-IT people working in IT, specially in places like IBM. So their salary will be even…

Of course.. It's not cherry picking. I said IT sector is doing pretty well in India. I never claimed anything other than that. Most majors have hard time finding any job in their sector.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am studying in college that has is not known by most people in India, and the official average here is around 18 LPA. I have the stats from the placement unit of our college. For IITB and BITS Pilani, I can confirm from friends it's around 27 LPA. This is one public stat I can find: http://www.selaqui.org/iit-jee/placement.php . Average is 24.67 LPA for CS, and it's from 2011-12. I don't know why you reacted with s…

I reacted with such disbelief because I know many people that work for big consultancies such as Capgemini, Cognizant and Infosys, and even in tier 1 and 2 cities with 10+ years' experience they don't make that much. Hell, many consultancies bill their EU and US clients less than those figures! I also hire directly for our own office in Mumbai from time-to-time, so I know that market rates are. Just look at any jobs…

Companies such as Wipro, TCS, Cognizant and Infosys are considered lowest in this sector. No kidding, they pick up 1000s in a single day from a single college. e.g. see http://www.srmuniv.ac.in/placement/statistics_2015.html

> SRM University sets new placement record of 6064 on Day 1

> The highest offer was from Wipro 1641, followed by TCS 1611, Cognizant 1506 and Infosys 1306.

You can imagine the quality of interview when they have interviewed at least 1500 students on a single day.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because you are looking at a cherry picked data to make your point. From the link: The department-wise average and highest salaries are shown below. The overall average and highest salaries stand at 8.98 LPA and 68.5 LPA respectively. So the average salary is 8.98 lakh. Unlike what you might like to believe there are many non-IT people working in IT, specially in places like IBM. So their salary will be even…

Of course.. It's not cherry picking. I said IT sector is doing pretty well in India. I never claimed anything other than that. Most majors have hard time finding any job in their sector.

And the point I am trying to make is - It is not the spring you believe it to be. Let's take a look at actual IBM India salary, should we? Here's the data from glassdoor: https://www.glassdoor.co.in/Salary/IBM-Salaries-E354.htm

Most freshers get near to Associate Systems Engineer. The salary range is between 3.7 lakhs to 8.65 lakhs. This is farcry from what you believe it is. Yes, there are colleges whose salaries are pushed to the limit thanks to the startups but majority are not as well of as you might think.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because you are looking at a cherry picked data to make your point. From the link: The department-wise average and highest salaries are shown below. The overall average and highest salaries stand at 8.98 LPA and 68.5 LPA respectively. So the average salary is 8.98 lakh. Unlike what you might like to believe there are many non-IT people working in IT, specially in places like IBM. So their salary will be even…

Of course.. It's not cherry picking. I said IT sector is doing pretty well in India. I never claimed anything other than that. Most majors have hard time finding any job in their sector.

> And the point I am trying to make is - It is not the spring you believe it to be. Let's take a look at actual IBM India salary, should we? Here's the data from glassdoor: https://www.glassdoor.co.in/Salary/IBM-Salaries-E354.htm

Yeah, I concede. For some reason, I had the belief that IBM is one of the better paying company in India, but it pays on the level of inferior consultancies.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting a little defensive here. IBM was one of the crown jewels of American industry. It was an iconic company in its time. The fact that it now employs more people in India than the US is something to ponder. It isn't so much about the merits of outsourcing. Everything can be done cheaper by getting it done in another part of the world. Should it be? Sometimes the answer is yes, at other times, not. Imagine…

That was merely an accident of history. The I in IBM doesn't stand for American.

The I in IBM stands for International (Business Machines) - from 1924, according to Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London has a 30-40x. 50k salary 1.5-2mil GBP for a well size 2 bed in a good area.

That is an exaggeration, or your standards are much much higher than mine. I live in a good area that attracts bankers and minor celebrities. Flats of the type you describe are 500-600K. Still expensive...

Depends if you mean in the City of London, in Greater London, "on the tube" or "inside the M25" ;-)

Apparently you can get a 2-bedroom flat in Bexley for £150,000....

The 10 cheapest places to buy in London: where to find the best-value homes in the capital, from Barking and Dagenham to Hounslow http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/property-news/buying/londo...

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#237
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not fully arguing against your point, but would just like to make one observation: IBM has been laying off people in the US (and maybe elsewhere too) for several years, every now and then. I have been in the software field for many years now, and have been reading the industry news for a long time, that's how I know it. I remember even way back, I used to read the news in Indian and foreign IT magazines, every no…

IBM laid off 5k workers in India this year: http://profit.ndtv.com/news/tech-media-telecom/article-ibm-i...

Could be. I check that sort of news less these days - jaded.

But it sort of reinforces my point that companies do layoffs. Sure, some Indian companies have started doing it too, whatever the pros and cons may be.

Founders and CEOs in the US like the ability to hire and fire, and the idea of employment at will. Some employees, less so.

India has historically been a country where paternalistic management practices were common, and firing was seen as something to be avoided as far as possible, considered as a big deal, the news and impact of it to be minimized or played down (I know this last point is so to some extent in the US too), and as a huge social stigma (for the person being fired or laid off). That has been changing some recently, due to Western influences. There can be both pros and cons to the matter. Don't have a final viewpoint on it.

Edited to change "been a company" to "been a country".

Edit: Quoting myself:

>India has historically been a country where paternalistic management practices were common, and firing was seen as something to be avoided as far as possible

This is also the case in government service - as in, in India, for long, and maybe even nowadays, it was almost impossible to fire a government employee, whatever the reason. Job security (along with poverty) was a huge reason why, in earlier years, many, or even the majority of people preferred government jobs - because even though the pay, environment, perks were all mostly shitty - though getting cheap owned or rented housing was seen as a good perk by many - again, a house was seen as a major asset to strive for - you could not be easily fired from your job. In a country with devastating annual floods / droughts (both still the case) / somewhat frequent famines, poverty, etc., those were factors to be considered. I remember even a classmate of mine (this was many years later than the start of the period I am talking about - the start was at Indian Independence or even years before), exulting to a few of us friends that "I 'got' DOTE!" (where DOTE == Department Of Technical Education", meaning that he got a "seat" in a government engineering college, meaning that if he did his stuff even just adequately, a secure lifelong government job was guaranteed - as witnessed by his answer when someone asked him why he went for it - his answer in one word was - "security" (of livelihood, of course, not computer security).

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you talk about PPP, keep in mind to factor in housing and other modern lifestyle conveniences. These are very very expensive if you price it as a percentage of your salary. Even in the Bay Area, a Home is still 5-6X annual income of a typical software engineer. In India, it is more like 10-15X.

Sure, but aren't basic necessities less expensive in India?

Do you know Numbeo?

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cit...

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#239
post #6

I'm not surprised. As H1-B regulations keep getting more strict, this phenomenon will spread to other big players in the industry.

I have researched H-1B heavily (because I was transitioning into it myself). I don't think the regulations have changed whatsoever in the last couple of decades. If they have, I'd love to hear in what ways.

I have no idea, but a quick Google turns up lots of stories like this:

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/world/america/040417/shock-to...

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collect a U. S. salary while shipping the actual work to a less expensive worker elsewhere. Just like companies do, only on an individual basis. I believe it has actually been done (then the person got caught and fired, IIRC).

It's been done alright! > "As it turns out, Bob had simply outsourced his own job to a Chinese consulting firm. Bob spent less than one-fifth of his six-figure salary for a Chinese firm to do his job for him." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/16/software-devel...

I remember that. The only bit I have no sympathy with was that he chose to send his whole day quietly browsing the web.
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