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IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

nytimes.com

11–20 of 259 posts

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#11

I've heard some B-school grads refer to this as some "inflection point". They were talking about more overseas workers for IBM in 2006 or so. The more important question is in which direction does the money flow? It has to be net positive for the US albeit not to US upper middle class programmers. My simple rule of thumb is if the move is not filling up CxO level coffers, it won't happen.

[deleted]

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#12

I think that this is a good example of how racism, conscious and unconscious is making us worse at predicting the future. Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research. This…

As an example of this racism, I'd use this comment from the article:

"It often takes 2 and sometimes 3 Indian employees to perform the role of the North America diluting the savings." https://nyti.ms/2yxCQGX

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#14

I've heard some B-school grads refer to this as some "inflection point". They were talking about more overseas workers for IBM in 2006 or so. The more important question is in which direction does the money flow? It has to be net positive for the US albeit not to US upper middle class programmers. My simple rule of thumb is if the move is not filling up CxO level coffers, it won't happen.

Why would it have to be net positive for the US?

If $100 million flows from AT&T to IBM. And IBM pockets $10 million and sends $90 million to India, that would be a net -$90 million for the US economy.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#15
post #10

I think that this is a good example of how racism, conscious and unconscious is making us worse at predicting the future. Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research. This…

In the tech sector at least, the relative salaries of employees located in India is still significantly lower than those in most America metropolitan locations. This overall reduced cost to a company is significant enough to invest in the market. As India is still considered a developing country, the quality of life, while debatable, would be considered a downgrade for many who could potentially be poached from other…

"the quality of life, while debatable, would be considered a downgrade for many who could potentially be poached from other regions". Why would it be a downgrade. If they paid an American $120k a year to live in Bangalore, that would buy the American a nice villa, pay for several servants, and allow for frequent travel. In SF, that same money gets you a shoe-box apartment.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#16
post #6

I'm not surprised. As H1-B regulations keep getting more strict, this phenomenon will spread to other big players in the industry.

What regulations have gotten strict? From last I read, the changes that Trump proposed seems to have gotten nowhere. Yet IBM has been shifting the worker base to India for decades.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#17

I think that this is a good example of how racism, conscious and unconscious is making us worse at predicting the future. Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research. This…

As an example of this racism, I'd use this comment from the article: "It often takes 2 and sometimes 3 Indian employees to perform the role of the North America diluting the savings." https://nyti.ms/2yxCQGX

I did not even want to comment but I have to. You are very xenophobic towards americans. Every developed rich nation has this attitude when it comes to outsourcing and offshoring.

But all of it is just anecdotal evidence (it goes both ways).You are not only forgetting about how economics work but also evidently omitting how that happened that US is so rich and can afford paying such salaries.

I really do not want to elaborate more but todays tech companies create such huge social disparities in India that literally everyone wants to work in IT just to uplift himself from "3rd world poor" to EE standards.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#18

I've heard some B-school grads refer to this as some "inflection point". They were talking about more overseas workers for IBM in 2006 or so. The more important question is in which direction does the money flow? It has to be net positive for the US albeit not to US upper middle class programmers. My simple rule of thumb is if the move is not filling up CxO level coffers, it won't happen.

Why would it have to be net positive for the US? If $100 million flows from AT&T to IBM. And IBM pockets $10 million and sends $90 million to India, that would be a net -$90 million for the US economy.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#20

I think that this is a good example of how racism, conscious and unconscious is making us worse at predicting the future. Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research. This…

Just a thought about the "huge" salary difference. Are you taking the Purchasing Power Parity(PPP) into account? I know that PPP is too macro for comparing very specific cases but it does steer the discussion in the right direction.

Let's say, an engineer's monthly salary is $10,000 in the US and he can afford X level of arbitrary "comforts in life". To be able to afford the same X level of arbitrary "comforts of life" in India, he'd need just $3000 - $3500.

These numbers are for illustration purposes only. Actuals will vary. of course.

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