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The rise and fall of Ext JS

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Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#21
post #17

I developed Ext-JS applications from 2011 till 2017, and during the ExtJS 4 time, it was great. I loved the quality of their documentation, and most importantly: the ability to comment on each class/method/property etc. This contained invaluable hints and insights. The community was really good. Then they upgraded ExtJS (can't remember if it was to Ext5 or 4.x) and deleted all the comments as 'no longer relevant'. Th…

It was a monster from day one.

Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#22
We used to be in an era where Java developers had JSF and .NET developers had Webforms - two technologies that were the perfect storm for component vendors. This is all falling apart now that we have npm and webpack - and the only thing Java or .NET are good for is the REST service infrastructure they provide. No company should be using Webforms or JSF type technologies anymore.

Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#25
post #12

It's interesting that in such an otherwise complete account of ExtJS that so little is made of the rise (and subsequent fall) of jQuery. The author rightfully talks about some of the (terrible) decisions made by the frameworks owners, that pushed folks from the community; but (imo) the greater effect was the rise of jQuery, which embraced an open source model ExtJS scorned and built a staggeringly large community whi…

jQuery is dom traversal and manipulation (with a common ajax interface) - ExtJS is (was) a UI framework. It's an apples and oranges comparison - I worked on several ExtJS projects, all of which used jQuery for one thing or another. I think it's actually pretty accurate to say that frameworks like angular are more responsible for its decline since their feature sets are much more similar.

What about jQuery UI? We used that extensively back in the day. According to Wikipedia, its first release date was back in 2007.

http://jqueryui.com/

Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#26
post #12

It's interesting that in such an otherwise complete account of ExtJS that so little is made of the rise (and subsequent fall) of jQuery. The author rightfully talks about some of the (terrible) decisions made by the frameworks owners, that pushed folks from the community; but (imo) the greater effect was the rise of jQuery, which embraced an open source model ExtJS scorned and built a staggeringly large community whi…

jQuery is dom traversal and manipulation (with a common ajax interface) - ExtJS is (was) a UI framework. It's an apples and oranges comparison - I worked on several ExtJS projects, all of which used jQuery for one thing or another. I think it's actually pretty accurate to say that frameworks like angular are more responsible for its decline since their feature sets are much more similar.

That is all technically correct (best kind). But that’s not how it’s viewed by the scores of people new to web development. Broadly speaking, you can use both to create a dynamic UI, just at very different levels of abstraction. And at the time when an ExtJS license cost hundreds of dollars and jQuery was picking up pace and was proper FOSS, someone new to web development would be much more likely to reach for jQuery.

The problem with jQuery was that it was almost good enough: it has a system of plugins which were abused to no end to make things like morals and calendars and whatnot. And then there was jQuery UI which promised all the loveliness if jQuery but for UI (I still shake a little when I remember it).

jQuery was and still is great as a helper for “I want to show/hide this thing on the page”. It’s just the show/hide behavior can quickly morph into 2-4K lines of spaghetti code manipulating all the UI and having all the business logic built in.

Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#27
post #17

I developed Ext-JS applications from 2011 till 2017, and during the ExtJS 4 time, it was great. I loved the quality of their documentation, and most importantly: the ability to comment on each class/method/property etc. This contained invaluable hints and insights. The community was really good. Then they upgraded ExtJS (can't remember if it was to Ext5 or 4.x) and deleted all the comments as 'no longer relevant'. Th…

I have fond memories of ExtJS until version 4 was released. I used to be huge advocate of extjs at our company, but I remember feeling horror and dismay seeing how down hill it went with 4.0. Communication with the community, their pricing policies, quality, perfomance ... too many issues. We pretty much stopped using it and ported all our projects away from it. It really was a sad day.

It was ultimately their mad push to make ExtJS "enterprise" ready and forget all the good people who helped them and were with them from the start. There really was this huge middle finger from Sencha to everyone around that time.

Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#28

> 2005: Smart phones did not exist. Yeah, ok.

Well, yeah. Phones at that time were mostly just laid out to render WAP pages only, if anything at all. And virtually nobody used that feature. Phones actually rending HTML/CSS/JS in a useful way came years later, roughly 2007+.

They were around since maybe 2004-2005. I vaguely remember this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Browser_for_Symbian

Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick way to inherit a lot of engineers

But then they just fired all of them apparently. https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6316923...

IOW, business as usual for any Idera acquisition (see Delphi)

Re: The rise and fall of Ext JS

#30
I think most developers who used ExtJS will have love/hate memories of the framework. I mostly used the framework from 2007-2014 at a previous job, and at the time the extent of most developers' JavaScript knowledge was how to manipulate the DOM with Prototype, jQuery or a similar library. ExtJS was a whole other animal compared to that with its own Java-inspired class system that sat on top of JS, a JSON-style declarative approach to design UI layouts and an extensive data model, store and proxy system that was actually incredibly powerful.

This day was always going to come, however. Sencha's commercial side has always had a habit of making bad decisions, and have always focused on attracting companies rather than developers. This led to initial success on the enterprise side of things - they had a large percentage of the Fortune 100 on their customer books. The problem was that developers didn't use ExtJS outside of the enterprise setting. This was primarily due to the decision to use GPL for the open source license and later to completely alienate individual developers by introducing a 5-developer minimum purchase for commercial licenses. Although I was highly competent with ExtJS and Sencha Touch, I never used it on any side projects mainly because of these issues. All of this meant that when it came to hiring developers with ExtJS experience, it was always a struggle, and I believe it is for this reason that it never took off outside of the big corporates.

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