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U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#191

Post by spoiledtechie »

knz wrote: post #122

As a permanent resident with a pending citizenship application (who came on the visa mentioned at the end of this article), I find this incredibly alarming. I have nothing to hide, despise terrorism and the fanatics that commit it, and wish no harm on others with different social, political, or religious views. But I'm familiar enough with history to know how badly this can end. "Papers please" had consequences, espe…

Since you weren't actually a citizen entering this country, you don't have the same rights as citizens do. Now you do, since you went through the process, but you certainly didn't before.

Secondly, if you had nothing to hide, then whats wrong with sharing?

You should separate the difference between citizen and non citizen. We know NOTHING about those people coming from outside the country. Immigrants in the past, didn't want to come and kill people. They came for a better future. The same can't be said about the current immigrant. So we must review and make ourselves more aware of the kind of person that is trying to because a citizen.

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#192

Post by copperred »

snarf21 wrote: post #177
knz wrote: post #122

As a permanent resident with a pending citizenship application (who came on the visa mentioned at the end of this article), I find this incredibly alarming. I have nothing to hide, despise terrorism and the fanatics that commit it, and wish no harm on others with different social, political, or religious views. But I'm familiar enough with history to know how badly this can end. "Papers please" had consequences, espe…

This is scary and keeps getting worse. As a citizen, I'm even worried about traveling and coming back. Do I want my phone confiscated because a friend from high school tagged me in a political post a random border patrol agent disagrees with? or worse? Remember, they have not stopped any terrorist attacks in the US with all the new surveillance since 9/11 (to my knowledge). "Those who would give up essential Liberty,…

Here's a list of unsuccessful attacks post-9/11. Not much info on how they were thwarted or if the surveillance played a role: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsuccessful_terrori...

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#193

Post by mikk14 »

snarf21 wrote: post #177
knz wrote: post #122

As a permanent resident with a pending citizenship application (who came on the visa mentioned at the end of this article), I find this incredibly alarming. I have nothing to hide, despise terrorism and the fanatics that commit it, and wish no harm on others with different social, political, or religious views. But I'm familiar enough with history to know how badly this can end. "Papers please" had consequences, espe…

This is scary and keeps getting worse. As a citizen, I'm even worried about traveling and coming back. Do I want my phone confiscated because a friend from high school tagged me in a political post a random border patrol agent disagrees with? or worse? Remember, they have not stopped any terrorist attacks in the US with all the new surveillance since 9/11 (to my knowledge). "Those who would give up essential Liberty,…

While I share the sentiment, misquoting people who were saying almost the opposite of what you meant is not going to go very far. Franklin wasn't talking at all about what you were thinking he was talking. It was about an argument on taxation.

http://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous...

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#194

Post by lucozade »

shubb wrote: post #138
rdtsc wrote: post #135

I see a new market opening - creation of US favorable social media profiles as a service. UFSMPaaS, just rolls of the tongue, I know. Pay a company and they will populate your social accounts with "I love the USA!" type phrases and media. They do that for a year before someone tries to immigrate. Or even worse. Don't like someone, send a public social media messaged directed at them with something like "Yeah, I got y…

Don't be too positive though - if the TSA think you really love the USA then you might want to move there. You need to write a bot that tweets 'I love the USA but wouldn't want to live there' every day.

> 'I love the USA but wouldn't want to live there'

I have a work colleague who has a green card but lives in the UK. He gets questioned on it every time he goes through US customs.

Essentially, the very idea that someone would choose not to live in the US is considered suspicious.

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#195

Post by bogomipz »

The biggest threat of violence to US citizens comes not from immigrants but from gun violence inflicted on them by their fellow American citizens.

Barely a week goes by where the US doesn't experience an act of domestic terrorism without some total nutter shoots up a mall, movie theater, school, church etc. In fact the frequency of these gun violence incidents is such that they sometimes interrupt each other's news cycles. There is even a lexicon that has been invented to describe the - "sheltering in place, "active shooter" etc.

You will never hear the US media call or government call these acts of terrorism or the perpetrators of this gun violence against innocent people referred to as terrorists.

It's worth noting Donald Trump the architect of this anti-immigrant hysteria opposes expanding federal background checks for gun purchases.

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#196

Post by truxus »

coldtea wrote: post #136
watty wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm being contrarian but how is this a big deal? I'd expect the government to be collecting all public information for its citizens and those visiting the country - why not? This isn't private info, it's publicly posted social media information, which is VERY easy to set to private if you wish. If they were collecting private info or browsing data, sure.

> Maybe I'm being contrarian but how is this a big deal? Ask a person in Argentina, Chile, Spain, and lots of other places besides. > I'd expect the government to be collecting all public information for its citizens and those visiting the country - why not? Because their social media lives are not its business -- citizens or not.

>Because their social media lives are not its business -- citizens or not.

This is a bit absurd. First Amendment to the Constitution guarantees your right to publish papers. But now you also want the right to prevent your publications from being read? The government has had a program collecting a vast majority of publications for a very long time i.e. the Library of Congress, so one might say the precedent has already been set.

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#197

Post by kelukelugames »

spoiledtechie wrote: post #191
knz wrote: post #122

As a permanent resident with a pending citizenship application (who came on the visa mentioned at the end of this article), I find this incredibly alarming. I have nothing to hide, despise terrorism and the fanatics that commit it, and wish no harm on others with different social, political, or religious views. But I'm familiar enough with history to know how badly this can end. "Papers please" had consequences, espe…

Since you weren't actually a citizen entering this country, you don't have the same rights as citizens do. Now you do, since you went through the process, but you certainly didn't before. Secondly, if you had nothing to hide, then whats wrong with sharing? You should separate the difference between citizen and non citizen. We know NOTHING about those people coming from outside the country. Immigrants in the past, did…

I am scared. President Trump's twitter account shows he is petty, vindictive, and thin-skinned. I won't be surprised if immigrants who are critical of him are punished. [1]

https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/28/aclu-fight-doj-request-i...

PS. Immigrants in the past came to kill all of the locals. ;)

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#198

Post by appleflaxen »

watty wrote: post #128
knz wrote: post #122

As a permanent resident with a pending citizenship application (who came on the visa mentioned at the end of this article), I find this incredibly alarming. I have nothing to hide, despise terrorism and the fanatics that commit it, and wish no harm on others with different social, political, or religious views. But I'm familiar enough with history to know how badly this can end. "Papers please" had consequences, espe…

Maybe I'm being contrarian but how is this a big deal? I'd expect the government to be collecting all public information for its citizens and those visiting the country - why not? This isn't private info, it's publicly posted social media information, which is VERY easy to set to private if you wish. If they were collecting private info or browsing data, sure.

It's a big deal because it's almost impossible to use this information in a way that won't have a huge cost to

1) the people visiting the US and

2) the US public (via tax support for enforcement which is driven by this policy)

Wolfram Alpha says that 322 people visit the US in a year.

Let's assume the technologists in charge of this (who are really no different than any other corporate engineer - capable, but fairly disinterested in their work and apathetic/unaffected by the results) manage to make the process 99.9999% effective in screening out the innocent, and 100% effective in screening terrorists who enter the US.

Well, that world-class accuracy gives you 99.9999 * 322 million => 322 people a year who are caught in the dragnet (and in all likelihood, it will be multiples of this number; likely thousands of individuals).

So now we are interrogating, investigating, and suspecting 322 innocent people in order to catch the... oh, wait; there really haven't been any terrorist attacks like 9/11 since... 9/11.

The Boston Bombers were home-grown. Anti-abortion extremists, religious fundamentalists, bullied schoolchildren, and paranoid schizophrenics have all tried or been accused of trying to wage terrorism on the US, but there's not a single event[1] that it looks like this policy could have prevented. But we're investigating 322 individuals (and their families, friends, and close contacts) in order to do it.

And at what cost? We will never know, because those numbers are classified due to their sensitive nature.

In the end, none of this matters: the government was never interested in terror prevention in the first place. They just needed a new bogey man to replace drugs, the Russians, whatever as a reason to ignore the constitution.

The war on terrorism is a farce.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States...

* edit: added the parenthetical note on numbers, multiples of estimate

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#199

Post by unethical_ban »

josephv wrote: post #152

I'm with Schneier on this, it's hard to get worked up about the gov't scraping information an individual publishes publicly. The larger trend is obviously still disturbing.

Stuff I put on Facebook isn't public. It's shared among friends. It's like what I talk about with friends at a bar, or at my house - and if the government asked for recordings of my chit-chat with friends (or even asked whether I recorded conversations) I would be horribly bothered.

So I am horribly bothered. I will be writing Congressmen and donating to the EFF this weekend.

Re: U.S. To Collect Social Media Data on All Immigrants Entering Country

#200

Post by Broken_Hippo »

spoiledtechie wrote: post #191
knz wrote: post #122

As a permanent resident with a pending citizenship application (who came on the visa mentioned at the end of this article), I find this incredibly alarming. I have nothing to hide, despise terrorism and the fanatics that commit it, and wish no harm on others with different social, political, or religious views. But I'm familiar enough with history to know how badly this can end. "Papers please" had consequences, espe…

Since you weren't actually a citizen entering this country, you don't have the same rights as citizens do. Now you do, since you went through the process, but you certainly didn't before. Secondly, if you had nothing to hide, then whats wrong with sharing? You should separate the difference between citizen and non citizen. We know NOTHING about those people coming from outside the country. Immigrants in the past, did…

This applies to naturalized citizens as well, though. So yes, citizens are affected. Anyone that is a naturalized citizen can be treated like a lower class.

Folks with green cards, which we know a bit about, are affected. It doesn't matter what your status is so long as you weren't born here.

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