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A “right to repair” movement tools up

economist.com

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Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#21

Post by pdelbarba »

leggomylibro wrote: post #5
MrQuincle wrote: post #4

Is there something a consumer electronics company can do allowing people to update or upgrade components or firmware in such a way that we are not basically forced to void the warranty?

Provide breakout headers or pogo pads to the relevant chips. Like, if your pebble had its STM32F439's SWDIO and SWCLK pins broken out, you could probably flash it just like an Arduino if it weren't for the copy/write protection stuff that they likely used. I dunno, what about others? Make several small and removable boards rather than one a single large one? Don't use BGA components whenever possible? Publish your la…

Most of these chips can actually be flashed no problem. They just have a fuse/bit that disables read over JTAG and to disable that you have to zero the entire device memory. This means that you can put whatever firmware on that you want, but you'll never have access to the old binary code that was running it, so making patches is impossible unless you can either A) rewrite all the firmware from scratch, B) find a way of tricking the existing software into dumping firmware over a port via some sort of overflow, etc or C) glitch the chip into allowing JTAG access with the bit/fuse set (used to be pretty common, more rare these days)

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#22

Post by icantdrive55 »

david-cako wrote: post #2

You can thank Louis Rossmann, in part, for this one. His livelihood does depend on it (although he has acknowledged that, as electronics get more disposable, he will inevitably end up having to shift into something like software or hardware design), but he has made a really admirable effort of actually going boots-on-the-ground and lobbying at political hearings.

He opened up my eyes too. He's honest, and seems like a moral person.

He seems to love what he does, but we need people like him in politics.

It's too bad just being honest is so rare these days.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#24

Post by madeofpalk »

stefco_ wrote: post #6

I hope at some point we'll start including recycling/disassembly and replacement externalities into price somehow. I don't know how you would do that in a fair way, but it is frustrating that there aren't a ton of corrective market forces to encourage manufacturers to make highly reusable, repairable, recyclable devices. All of this electronics churn is environmentally terrible, and it's frustrating that, as with car…

That already happens, but on a different scale. When Apple has to repair or replace an iPhone, they're giving you a remanufactured iPhone using reused internal parts like screws or shielding. This is factored into the costs of an iPhone which keeps them 'lower' / profit margins higher.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#25

Post by pjc50 »

stefco_ wrote: post #6

I hope at some point we'll start including recycling/disassembly and replacement externalities into price somehow. I don't know how you would do that in a fair way, but it is frustrating that there aren't a ton of corrective market forces to encourage manufacturers to make highly reusable, repairable, recyclable devices. All of this electronics churn is environmentally terrible, and it's frustrating that, as with car…

This is exactly what the EU WEEE directive is. It makes only a very small difference, although it did result in action against anti-refill ink cartridges.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#26

Post by tjr »

jokoon wrote: post #18

Planned obsolescence is why I will never invest more than 100 euros into a phone. I will always wait to buy low-priced, fast enough for me hardware. I still remember how my macbook pro started to be slow and unusable after OSX updates. My real wish is that one day, computer or smartphone hardware might last at least 5 or even 10 years. I know software is evolving quickly, but there comes a point where I don't think y…

My current MacBook Pro is at about seven years; feeling like about time to replace it, just to be able to stay current.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#27

Post by contingencies »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #13
contingencies wrote: post #8

The real issue is that consumers are stupid and want to stay stupid which means modular products, being more complicated, are not something they are going to shell out for. It's a lot easier to say "buy this widget for $x a month for 48 months" (classic US example) than to say "what computer do you have? oh you don't know. why don't we arrange for me to have a look at it another day. uhuh. ok well i've taken a look a…

Or maybe they aren't stupid and they're simply acting in their own self-interest, which means not wasting their time with unnecessarily more complicated products that offer little to them in return. Or maybe they do want the products they use to be status symbols. Or maybe they simply don't share your point of view. This doesn't mean they're necessarily stupid, it means they're different from you.

OK so it was a strong choice of words, but anyone who doesn't care about the environment and waste is really shortsighted by definition. Is that 'stupid'? Maybe not. Maybe you can make an edge case and claim they are self-interested and that's OK from your philosophical stance. But I firmly believe that, in a world most intelligent people would like to live in, it is stupid.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#28

Post by nicky0 »

jokoon wrote: post #18

Planned obsolescence is why I will never invest more than 100 euros into a phone. I will always wait to buy low-priced, fast enough for me hardware. I still remember how my macbook pro started to be slow and unusable after OSX updates. My real wish is that one day, computer or smartphone hardware might last at least 5 or even 10 years. I know software is evolving quickly, but there comes a point where I don't think y…

In my recent experience, my Mac has got faster after each macOS update. They seem to be putting a lot of effort into performance.

I'm just not seening the evidence of this "planned obsolescence". I would put it on the level of a conspiracy theory. Little hard evidence in favour, but anecdoes accepted as fact by those inclined to believe them.

As a counter-anecdote, as it happens I'm typing this on my 2011 Mac mini, my main work machine, which is still going strong. Just upgraded to High Sierra - the seventh major OS version this machine has seen. It's working well and and no sign of Apple trying to force me to buy anything new.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#30

Post by icantdrive55 »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #13
contingencies wrote: post #8

The real issue is that consumers are stupid and want to stay stupid which means modular products, being more complicated, are not something they are going to shell out for. It's a lot easier to say "buy this widget for $x a month for 48 months" (classic US example) than to say "what computer do you have? oh you don't know. why don't we arrange for me to have a look at it another day. uhuh. ok well i've taken a look a…

Or maybe they aren't stupid and they're simply acting in their own self-interest, which means not wasting their time with unnecessarily more complicated products that offer little to them in return. Or maybe they do want the products they use to be status symbols. Or maybe they simply don't share your point of view. This doesn't mean they're necessarily stupid, it means they're different from you.

I wouldn't say they are stupid, but lacking technical prowess is something I have noticed.

They seem to have a lot of disposable income, so their doing something right?

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