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Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

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Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#281

Post by nerfhammer »

falsedan wrote: post #118
nkrisc wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, what's cheaper than a studio? Anything with one or more bedrooms is going to be more expensive. Perhaps you're not familiar with American apartment terminology or I'm missing something? A studio apartment is as cheap as you can get normally.

Room/housemates, an N-bedroom's rent/N is always less than a 1-bedroom (for N > 1)

It completely depends on the supply of the particular city. SFBA has lots of split level houses that were meant for families a few generations ago and very few studios.

Many in this thread seem flabbergasted that a studio would be expensive or could ever be cheap, it's probably based on whatever market they're used to.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#282

Post by sidlls »

vvanders wrote: post #264
sidlls wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a different (admittedly controversial) take, having been on the "tech ladder" for some time now (as a Senior SWE and Lead Engineer): most individual contributors overestimate how much value they actually provide, especially in the Bay Area. That isn't to say we're not under-appreciated and under-compensated (we are both). But realistically much of the time work we do is easily done by literally thousands of ot…

Everything you listed is just a multiplier on if the technology actually works . If you have a sucky multiplier of course your product won't do well but if it isn't technically executed right you still have a zero.

It isn't binary: value is created by all parties involved. It's just, in my opinion, that if we normalize the value created to be 1 for the product team, then engineering's value is less than 1, and sales and marketing is (more often) greater than or equal to 1, most of the time. Exceptions exist. But they're not normal, by definition.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#283

Post by humanrebar »

s73ver_ wrote: post #229
humanrebar wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a wife and kids... Sure, so minimal commute times and affordability of family homes in areas with good schools should be very appealing to many of the specialized senior engineers. Moving the family is a pain, sure, but that just means the pitch needs to include why it's worth it for the family. And it means that senior engineers move cities less often. It doesn't mean they move less altogether. Idle thought…

But what if it turns out the family hates it or the job is terrible and soul crushing? Now I'm kinda stuck there for 4 years.

What if the family hates SF or Seattle? That doesn't seem to enter the equation when recruiting people in the other direction.

The job-is-terrible concerns can be addressed other ways. Like putting the candidate up in temporary digs for a month or three while they decide on a longer-term deal. A reverse contract-to-hire, if you will. That sounds complicated, but it's not more complicated than a normal contract-to-hire.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#284

Post by gbarc888 »

Akujin wrote: post #168
leeoniya wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

certainly i'm not saying that prior wealth does not play a major factor or isn't strongly correlated, but it is not a prerequisite by any stretch, which was my interpretation of the comment.

I have the same background as you. Crimea, not Moscow. Americans will never understand. Our parents stood in breadlines. We are making six figures in America. It's not about wealth. It's about a culture that respects hard work, education, and opportunity.

Same background here. China, not Moscow or Crimea

I worry about the next generation. They say that wealth skips every other generation, because if a child grows up in a well-to-do family, they will not value hard work as much.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#285

Post by mhuffman »

TimPC wrote: post #216
humanrebar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share you bullishness about "untapped" cities, but: > ...starting a company in an area that does not need the top tier of engineers... As far as quality of talent, the "top tier of engineers" aren't all in SF, Seattle, or NYC. There are plenty of "top tier" engineers in all kinds of places. If you mean the "top tier" in pay rates are in those cities, that probably true. But those cities also have a ridiculous cost…

A good measure of where the best engineers are is where the best engineers migrate to. In the smaller communities I’ve been in over time I’ve seen the top engineers in the community migrate away. Engineers that come back from effectively unsuccessful 1-yearish stints at Big X companies often become top engineers in the communities to which they return. I think I’d want a lot of people evidence to agree with the claim…

> A good measure of where the best engineers are is where the best engineers migrate to.

I would say that is only a good measure of where more money is being spent.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#286

Post by bspn »

Clubber wrote: post #11
orthoganol wrote: post #8

What about the world of contracting? You can also be someone who has flexibility on where/ when they work and for who, and it's probably a more viable 'path' in tech than in any other industry. Since the vast majority of founders fail, having significant financial cushions from your family or years working prior is probably the top pre-requisite if 'founder' is your path.

Contracting is good, but there is a trap. If you find yourself as a contractor and the market crashes, finding new contracts is much more difficult. At least I experienced this during the dot bomb / 911 collapse in 2001. Also, you have to pay for your health insurance, which is getting crazy expensive, and only gets more expensive as you get older. Make sure you adjust your rate accordingly. This may or may not apply…

Yes, health insurance is an unavoidable PITA, but I'd argue that contracting actually better insulates you from major market corrections if you have multiple client relationships. While a major dot.com type bust may wipe out most of them, you have a better chance of at least one making it through alive vs putting all of your eggs in one basket as a W-2 employee.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#287

Post by gxs »

urda wrote: post #270
gxs wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see how I might have been confused about which site I was on since the level of entitlement is exactly the same. Not sure your preaching about this not being Reddit contributed to this discussion anymore than my comments. Admittedly I could have reigned in the language, however. Finally, to address your points: >>>How can you expect a technial worker Shining example of my point about entitlement. >>>Someone w…

> Not sure your preaching about this not being Reddit contributed to this discussion anymore than my comments. Yeah and it was painfully pointed out in two comments (and your downvotes) that your behavior is unacceptable here. > You can see how I might have been confused about which site I was on since the level of entitlement is exactly the same. Entitlement? You're the one assuming that it's all A-OK in the Bay and…

>>>At this point I will not engage with your comments any further, as you have demonstrated you do not meet HN standards here.

Do as you please - how about this - I'll stop engaging you after this comment as well.

1) We haven't discussed finances at all. Not sure where you are drawing that I "don't know anything about finance" other than the fact I disagree with you. Again, making assumptions.

2) Again stop putting words in my mouth. I'm in my early 30s and never said anything about people not working hard. All I'm saying is that it's a little rich for tech workers to be dramatizing their struggles in the Bay Area when they at least have a shot at attaining some things that lesser off people will never realistically have a shot at - as you've mentioned. We should definitely be trying to improve the system for everyone as it's not beyond reproach, but ironically you're the ones being emotional in that regard which is why it was met with an emotional response.

Sometimes I feel bad when I get down voted, but this particular theme is ridiculous and an example of how self centered tech workers are. I haven't used memes other than two lines in my previous comment that I already admitted were inappropriate. Who made you the HN police by the way? You seem to have a habit of commenting on the quality of other people's comments.

And by the way, this is all made even more ridiculous by your previous comments in other threads about not wanting to make everything in the tech industry about diversity.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#288

Post by enraged_camel »

ulfw wrote: post #220
cbr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's cheaper than a studio? Splitting a several-bedroom apartment several ways. For example, where I live [1] a studio is $1,700 but one room in a 3br is $1,100. [1] http://www.jefftk.com/apartment_prices

And then you have several more people living in your dwellings. Not everyone is a student anymore.

I'm 33, have been working professionally for 10 years and have had roommates the whole time. Different ones, too.

Unless you're strongly introverted, and/or suffer from social anxiety, having roommates is a great way to a) meet new people and b) save lots of money.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#290

Post by gbarc888 »

TuringNYC wrote: post #218
gxs wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insult to the thousands of people who make it in the bay area on barista wages. Just fucking wow. You can save in the bay area, live with roommates and pay comfortably . You don't even have to do that forever, just long enough to move up a bit in your job and save for a downpayment if buying a home is your goal. Not to mention if your spouse works and makes similar money then you can live a really high qua…

>> live with roommates and pay What if you are married with children? Not sure about you, but I would definitely not feel comfortable having roommates in my 1.5BR. With me + wife + 5yo son + 2yo daughter, how would the logistics even work? -- where would the roommates sleep? In the kitchen? In the kids' bedroom? In our bedroom with my wife and me?

This is one thing I can't stand about the Bay Area. Roommates are for college kids. It is not normal to be 30 years old, making over 100k, and living with roommates. But everyone I know lives like this, including myself.
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