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Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#161

Post by pen2l »

lsmarigo wrote: post #134
OzzyB wrote: post #54

If I wanted to create an alternative to YouTube with a conservative bent what are the chances Cloudflare will wake up one morning and shut me down? What if the content is just generally in "bad taste" and not overtly Neo-Nazi, will CF feel the need to play "Content Cop" or are they willing to abide by their role as utility?

I know you guys took major issue with the Cloudlfare takedown of DailyStormer but try to look at the big picture. Mankind has never had a tool as powerful as the internet. The advent of the printing press played a key role in the lead up to the Salem Witch Trials. How big a role the internet played in the mess we find ourselves in today as a country, that's up to future historians to argue, but make no mistake the im…

Good points, I want to add:

We just witnessed something very significant, when Russia interfered. They had an express goal and they carried it out with technologies we know.

A medium that is absolutely free of censorship is not in your best interest, because it can and will be used to compromise you.

The solutions are difficult, but what is clear (especially to folks who have had to moderate even a small channel or forum) is that a policy of no-censorship never scales in the real world, the question is how you do it, where to draw the line, etc..

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#162

Post by protomyth »

occultist_throw wrote: post #119
protomyth wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is my guarantee on that? Cloudflare has done it once, and I really don't know what political views would set the CEO off again. I hate what the stormidiots spout, but I'm pretty sure I don't trust Cloudflare anymore as neutral ground.

Eastdakota is Cloudflare's CEO, btw. Admittedly the stance for/against Tor discrimination is a wide one.... That's an issue with users, not content. But the only case where I believed he nuked a site was against Daily Stormer. They call for violence and eradication of all non-whites, specializing on Jewish and African hatred. He wont even kick off booters, which even he admits are fraud artists even when they do pay.…

> So yeah, I would consider your site to be safe, unless you call for extermination of $race and actions to back that up.

I more worried about someone telling Cloudflare I'm doing that or some other vile thing when I am not. It seems to be the standard way to get YouTube and Twitter to kick people off.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#163

Post by KGIII »

always_good wrote: post #132
KGIII wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment was about them asserting there should be 100x the video content. Why should there be? It's a pretty horrible way to share information, in all but a few situations.

CloudFlare isn't saying there should be 100x more videos. They're saying that they can make it easy / viable / cheap enough that 100x more self-hosted video providers could exist.

> No, to be clear, if you add up all the companies using all the CDNs you mention you only get to about 1,000 that are doing so at any meaningful and interesting scale. That's a shame. There should be 100x that. That's what we want to enable.

Emphasis mine.

That's exactly what it looks like to me, more so when I look at it in context with the rest of the comment they made?

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#164

Post by azinman2 »

lbotos wrote: post #146
azinman2 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is rediculius. If they took down child porn, would you also have an issue with this? What about a phishing site hosting malware and capturing passwords for the Russian mafia? It seems clear to me you can’t be 100% agnostic to your content. There is a huge gap between “conservative bent” and those trying to actively incite violence in the name of Hitler. And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across…

GP was using that phrasing because of the post the CEO used to justify the actions: " I woke up this morning in a bad mood and decided to kick them off the Internet." https://gizmodo.com/cloudflare-ceo-on-terminating-service-to... The point of the matter is services can host questionable content and remove it to comply with the law or services can based on their terms of service remove content "as they see fit." The…

But they admitted that was a scary thing and prompted discussion about said slippery slope. Seems quite responsible to me.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#165

Post by azinman2 »

katastic wrote: post #149
azinman2 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is rediculius. If they took down child porn, would you also have an issue with this? What about a phishing site hosting malware and capturing passwords for the Russian mafia? It seems clear to me you can’t be 100% agnostic to your content. There is a huge gap between “conservative bent” and those trying to actively incite violence in the name of Hitler. And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across…

If you bothered to Google before posting, you'd see more than a single data point. Voat was targeting with a letter writing campaign saying they were a child porn host when they weren't. All the liberals said "if you don't like Reddit, make your own." So someone did. And then liberals DDoS'd it into the ground and had any ISP that dared host them, filled with DMCA and child porn notifications. Instagram, Facebook, an…

“All the liberals,” “you guys are X,” intentionally loaded sarcastic Qs without an honest context... I feel like I’m reading Fox News here.

Bucketing half the population together is intellectually dishonest and does nothing to solve any problems or convince others of your points. Labeling them the enemy only creates further divisions for division sake. All it does is give fodder to those wanting confirmation bias on a given side.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#166

Post by azinman2 »

Karunamon wrote: post #140
azinman2 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is rediculius. If they took down child porn, would you also have an issue with this? What about a phishing site hosting malware and capturing passwords for the Russian mafia? It seems clear to me you can’t be 100% agnostic to your content. There is a huge gap between “conservative bent” and those trying to actively incite violence in the name of Hitler. And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across…

And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across all their hosted properties is hardly an indication that their CEO is randomly moody. If you read the blog[1] regarding that incident, it provides a lot more evidence than the datapoint of the removal. It also completely undermines Cloudflare's claims of being content-neutral. Given that content neutrality is a binary state... [1]: https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-…

I was going off my memory of stormfront situation. Apologies if I incorrectly cited number of data points. I still am not concerned about the GP’s issue given the CEO expressed remorse and created a debate. It’s hard to imagine neo-nazis doing such a thing themselves should they create a cloud front competitor.

I agree they should remove ISIS sites. It’s marginally harder given you could argue it’s about religion/politics, but I’m happy to lump them in with neo-nazis inciting violence.

It’d be nice if you could create some perfect set of clear rules that you could cleanly apply to 100% of sites. Unfortunately the world is squishy and gray, which is why we have judges despite countless laws written in legalese that build on top of each other’s precedent. I don’t expect judging content to be the same. I appreciate the CEO thinking they should just defer to when gov forces them to shut something down. I also appreciate the perspective of removing extremist sites — you got one life to live so why not make a difference creating barriers to _EXTREME_ hate/violence around the world.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#167

Post by mikeryan »

Karunamon wrote: post #140
azinman2 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is rediculius. If they took down child porn, would you also have an issue with this? What about a phishing site hosting malware and capturing passwords for the Russian mafia? It seems clear to me you can’t be 100% agnostic to your content. There is a huge gap between “conservative bent” and those trying to actively incite violence in the name of Hitler. And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across…

And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across all their hosted properties is hardly an indication that their CEO is randomly moody. If you read the blog[1] regarding that incident, it provides a lot more evidence than the datapoint of the removal. It also completely undermines Cloudflare's claims of being content-neutral. Given that content neutrality is a binary state... [1]: https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-…

If you think that there’s a risk of Clouflare pulling your site down I’d choose not to use their service?

Seems an easy choice.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#168

Post by a_t48 »

pen2l wrote: post #161
lsmarigo wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you guys took major issue with the Cloudlfare takedown of DailyStormer but try to look at the big picture. Mankind has never had a tool as powerful as the internet. The advent of the printing press played a key role in the lead up to the Salem Witch Trials. How big a role the internet played in the mess we find ourselves in today as a country, that's up to future historians to argue, but make no mistake the im…

Good points, I want to add: We just witnessed something very significant, when Russia interfered. They had an express goal and they carried it out with technologies we know. A medium that is absolutely free of censorship is not in your best interest, because it can and will be used to compromise you. The solutions are difficult, but what is clear (especially to folks who have had to moderate even a small channel or f…

I'm facing this situation right now. I've peeked in the discord channel of the ones who want to post edgy memes on our forums and they see themselves as martyrs for getting banned or quitting the forums.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#169

Post by a_t48 »

rcthompson wrote: post #159
hueving wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does any organized hate group and it's not hard to link any content "in bad taste" to the message of some sort of hate group.

Are we really worried about being able to tell the difference between bad taste and advocating for genocide? I'm not convinced there's a gray area between those two.

Racism doesn't have to be overt.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#170

Post by alexhornbake »

OzzyB wrote: post #54

If I wanted to create an alternative to YouTube with a conservative bent what are the chances Cloudflare will wake up one morning and shut me down? What if the content is just generally in "bad taste" and not overtly Neo-Nazi, will CF feel the need to play "Content Cop" or are they willing to abide by their role as utility?

The right to be a customer of cloudflare (edit: cloudfront typo) is not really a "free internet" either. Personally, I value the right to not do business with nazis over the right to have hate speech backed by a CDN. No one is stopping you from starting your conservative YouTube on your own servers.
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