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Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

blog.ycombinator.com

211–220 of 297 posts

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I find rent-seeking landlords to be an unethical pursuit. I know that's not a mainstream thought, and is the underpinning of many people's income strategy ... but I can't support the idea of letting a family live in a property for decades, and then something happening, and they're on the street with nothing to show for the tens of thousands of dollars they have given in rent.

"I can't support the idea of letting a family buy food for decades, then something happening, and they're starving with nothing to show for the tens of thousands of dollars they have spent on food."

Do you spend as much on rent as you do on food? My mortgage is bigger than food and utilities combined.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#212
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would recommend reading through the entire blog archive, all together it's about the same length as a book. You can skip over articles on things that aren't interesting to you, for example I don't care about real estate. My personal philosophy is a combination of all the different sources I have been exposed too. My main influences would be the mustachian thought sphere (MMM, The Magic of Thinking Big, Stoicism), s…

How do you go from atheist to creating your own deities that you add and remove at will?

> creating your own deities that you add and remove at will?

This is likely a miscommunication. Deity is a bad word, but I have a feeling the parent poster was just using it for emphasis.

The parent poster may just mean they respect and believe in the ideas collected together by a specific symbol. As soon as that symbol diverges its ideas from the parent, or the parent diverges is value function away from those ideas, then the parent poster no longer holds that symbol "in regard" (i.e. a deity).

I don't know about the parent, but to give you my perspective: I consider myself a poly-ideologist. It comes across very similar to what the parent poster describes.

I try and give all ideas merit, regardless of my prior thoughts. I usually give the most respect to ideas which are in my best interest (i.e. follow my value function). Sometimes this is hard because it goes counter to other ideas, and I have to internally find an equilibrium.

For example, how do I reconcile that I want to be financially independent, to do so, maybe I need to rent-seek, but also I believe all humans should be considered equal and treated with respect? By some definition of rent-seeking I am not respecting the people paying me money. As such, clearly it isn't binary I need to find an equilibrium and as time flows that equilibrium may change. To give fake but concrete numbers for the sake of explanation, lets say: I have a 65% belief that all humans should be respected and considered equal, however, 35% belief that I am not considered equal with all humans, I am superior. At every instant in time, I flip flop. I flip flop so fast between both that it is indistinguishable from believing both even tho they are contrary. Knowing this side of my human nature, it helps me reconcile how much I am willing to exploit other humans in order to become financially independent. (For the record its a hard thing to type out, because of social stigmas against recognizing certain ideas. rent-seeking/not treating people equally are some of the slightly more appropriate of all possible inappropriate ideas.)

Another example, if you asked me do I believe in god or am I an atheist? Those aren't binary questions for me, I'd give you a percentage. Today, I'm 20% sure god exists, 20% an atheist, 60% sure that it doesn't matter to me today. On a different day, say I was in the hospital, I may find myself giving more merit to believing in god, and that ratio might skew 80% believing in god, but still 20% sure that its total bullshit. Or I say a child with cancer and on that day I'd be pretty sure god doesn't exist.

I don't know.. I'm just kinda weird. Perhaps its not possible for me to explain myself yet.

P.S. All percentages in this post are not accurate. I have no way to measure how much I believe a particular idea.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#213
post #180
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You should own," no, everyone is different. Many people have no interest or ability to take care of a property. I watched my grandparents' house deteriorate and literally fall apart from neglect. [I used to think the roof leaking when it rained was a totally normal thing] They had literally every appliance in the house break over the years but they didn't have the wherewithal to replace anything so they just went wi…

I don't disagree with your broader point. But I would point out that owning doesn't need to mean owning a standalone house. In addition, in general, renting starts to become problematic at some point in life where being forced to move because the landlord sold the property becomes a really unpleasant situation.

Condos are another can of worms.

I just very briefly touched on one issue with owning and why it may make sense for someone to rent for years (even if it might not be financially optimal[1]).

Books could be written about the topic.

The main takeaway is "everyone is different." And "one size does not fit all." Remember, many businesses still choose to rent over buying.

[1] plus you only truly know in hindsight what was truly financially optimal

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#214
post #201

The biggest question I face regarding early retirement in the USA is how to handle health care expenses, because the situation is so messed up. There is huge uncertainty around the future of healthcare, especially regarding coverage and quality. So far, all the early retired people I have seen have either a working spouse or have retired abroad. It would be great to know if people here, especially those who retired e…

At least with the Affordable Care Act (which survived yet another repeal-and-replace attempt this week), it's possible to buy insurance on the open market with a pre-existing condition (which I assume that almost everyone older than their 20s or 30s has at least one). So for now health insurance is an expense you can plausibly budget for and not something that's completely unattainable at any price.

Given the political uncertainty around ACA until now, I would say its a rational decision to not rely on it. Sure, it survived this round of repeal efforts, but I am not sure if it is going to survive next 10 years. There is a very good chance that it will be replaced, and only a moderate chance that replacement will be better than what we have today.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#215
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well rather than attempting sarcasm, why don't you tell us what you think retired means? Presumably you're banned from ever doing any task that might even possibly net you any money?

if you are doing tasks that net you money, you are working, you are not retired. Right? definition of retired: Dictionary retired re·tired rəˈtī(ə)rd/Submit adjective 1. having left one's job and ceased to work. "a retired teacher" synonyms: former, ex-, past, in retirement, superannuated More 2. archaic (of a place) quiet and secluded; not seen or frequented by many people. "this retired corner of the world"

If you play poker for fun and win some money while you're at it, are you working?

What about slots?

What about buying antiques, and you wind up with something worth a bunch of money?

I think calling it work requires the intent of earning money. And I agree that MMM is no longer retired.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#216
post #44
post #19

I've been reading his blog for a few years, and he does some have some insightful advice on shedding unnecessary expenses and living on a frugal spending diet. I've been able to get down to one car that is almost paid off, and double my savings and investment portfolio. My favorite article from him is living close enough to work to bike (although working from home is most ideal). However, his blog comes with a bit of…

MMM is too smug and pushy for a good portion of the general public. His writing can awfully hostile, it could be toned down a bit and his message would get further - some of his advice is very sensible. The problem with frugal blogs (in general) is they do one or more of the following; push penny pinching 24/7, "if you aren't eating lentils everyday and living in a cardboard box you're fucking up," they are too conde…

My comfort zone with regard to frugality is much less extreme than MMM's. Probably nearer Dave Ramsey's part of the spectrum.

I like the MMM blog because it's a good source of concepts/tips to try, but you don't have to treat it like gospel. For example, the DIY home maintenance and investing tips resonate with me, but the "rewards credit card" not so much.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I find rent-seeking landlords to be an unethical pursuit. I know that's not a mainstream thought, and is the underpinning of many people's income strategy ... but I can't support the idea of letting a family live in a property for decades, and then something happening, and they're on the street with nothing to show for the tens of thousands of dollars they have given in rent.

The reason to rent is for the ability to move on demand. If a family is renting in the same place for decades, that is their problem. The moment you realize you are going to stay in one place for an extended period of time, there is no reason to continue renting. Sure, not everybody can purchase their dream home. But they can purchase something small, build equity, and upgrade in the future. The government also has p…

It's common for people to get stuck below or near the poverty line. It's difficult to save for a house down payment (much less build up the credit to get a loan for the rest) when you're struggling to pay for rent, bills, and food. Ignoring this cycle is missing the reality for many, many people.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#218
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What avenue is there to retire at 30 if you make 200k by 25? I must be missing something massive.

If I live on $30k/yr (I lived comfortably on a less for years--Austin, not SF) and pay 30% in taxes (again, Texas is an exception this way), that's $550k after five years without interest. If you can then earn 5%/yr on that $550, that gives you $27.5k/yr to live on--and you've already been making it on $30k/yr... Basically, learn to be comfortable on a reasonably low income. In the interview, he talks about biking as…

Yeah, I live in Houston and can totally see what you mean. I think I could reasonably get down to 30k and be pretty comfortable. I let lifestyle inflation hit me harder than it should have and that's what I'm dealing with now. I make better decisions than most, but not optimal decisions. (eg. I bought a car for 14k on an almost 0% interest loan, but the optimal choice is to not buy a car at all. The average choice is probably buy a more expensive car with a bigger interest rate loan) As I get older I realize the compounding sub-optimal choices really make a huge difference. I'm going to take your advice and really break down what my goal is and what my spending habits must be in order to hit that goal. It's definitely closer to FI at 40 than RE at 30, but at this point I'm not even sure I'll hit that.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#219
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What avenue is there to retire at 30 if you make 200k by 25? I must be missing something massive.

If I live on $30k/yr (I lived comfortably on a less for years--Austin, not SF) and pay 30% in taxes (again, Texas is an exception this way), that's $550k after five years without interest. If you can then earn 5%/yr on that $550, that gives you $27.5k/yr to live on--and you've already been making it on $30k/yr... Basically, learn to be comfortable on a reasonably low income. In the interview, he talks about biking as…

> average cost of car ownership in the US is something like $8k/yr

The number you've quoted is about new cars. For used cars it could be 10 times less.

Re: Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

#220
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you are doing tasks that net you money, you are working, you are not retired. Right? definition of retired: Dictionary retired re·tired rəˈtī(ə)rd/Submit adjective 1. having left one's job and ceased to work. "a retired teacher" synonyms: former, ex-, past, in retirement, superannuated More 2. archaic (of a place) quiet and secluded; not seen or frequented by many people. "this retired corner of the world"

If you play poker for fun and win some money while you're at it, are you working? What about slots? What about buying antiques, and you wind up with something worth a bunch of money? I think calling it work requires the intent of earning money. And I agree that MMM is no longer retired.

Look, claiming you are retired while regularly doing 3 jobs for money is disingenuous in my opinion.
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