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As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

nytimes.com

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Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#21

Post by thriftwy »

jankotek wrote: post #10
trendia wrote: post #2

By no means do I agree with much of what is on the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS). However, from a purely algorithmic standpoint, their website has content that should rank very highly: 1) Much of their content is original (i.e. not copy-pasted from other sites) 2) A majority of the page is composed of text, rather than images or ads 3) Where there are ads, they are minimal and largely hidden from view. 4) Their web…

> from a purely algorithmic standpoint You could use the same argument on any extremist site. Algorithm can parse content. It probably has list of bullshit related keywords. Just the title: > Marxist analysis, international working class struggles & the fight for socialism

Extremist is the tag that Putin bolts on every opinion he doesn't like, so now I may assume you are a putinist.

Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#22

Post by nl »

trendia wrote: post #2

By no means do I agree with much of what is on the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS). However, from a purely algorithmic standpoint, their website has content that should rank very highly: 1) Much of their content is original (i.e. not copy-pasted from other sites) 2) A majority of the page is composed of text, rather than images or ads 3) Where there are ads, they are minimal and largely hidden from view. 4) Their web…

from a purely algorithmic standpoint, their website has content that should rank very highly

I think there is a causality error here. Traditionally things which meet those criteria have been ranked highly, but not because of those things. Rather, those things have been easy to detect and have correlated well with quality search rankings.

But that doesn't mean that they are (or should) be the only signals a ranking algorithm can use. I'd argue that a hypothetical AI search engine would do a lot more verification of content as part of the ranking process. It is absolutely true that this remains challenging at the moment (verifiable implies truth after all), but the point remains.

Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#23

Post by wallace_f »

vkou wrote: post #20
wallace_f wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever once in a while I link someone or mentioned what is in articles such as these, below, and I rarely find people believe it until they read it in name-brand media. Maybe I am wrong but from 9/11 to the Snowden leaks to now it feels like we are on some accelerated path towards 1984 where conspiracy theories are becoming reality. For example: the US gov actively influences movies and TV scripts for propaganda purpos…

None of these adventures are anything new. The US government had been responsible for blatant propaganda in film and print, lied about causes of wars, and spied on, sabotaged, suppressed, and manipulated domestic political movements for decades. This has been happening since the Red Scare gave the ruling classes something to lose sleep over.

I have never seen a poll on something like "do you think the US government is actively manipulating media?" Or, "what do you think the odds are this TV show was scripted by the US government to shape your opinion on an issue?"

The thing is I think many see this as the realm of conspiracy theory; and maybe public opinion of establishment media would change if they thought differently

Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#24

Post by jankotek »

thriftwy wrote: post #21
jankotek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from a purely algorithmic standpoint You could use the same argument on any extremist site. Algorithm can parse content. It probably has list of bullshit related keywords. Just the title: > Marxist analysis, international working class struggles & the fight for socialism

Extremist is the tag that Putin bolts on every opinion he doesn't like, so now I may assume you are a putinist.

Website that constantly talks about 'struggle' and 'revolution' is not extremist at all.

Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#25

Post by adrian_b »

bad_user wrote: post #18
Jerry2 wrote: post #8

I think we're close to 1984 world and thought control... but coming from tech giants like Facebook and Google.

1984 is very unrealistic. I personally found it boring. People should study what happened in the Easter European countries from the Warsaw Pact, like Romania. The interesting thing about our former communists and their security apparatus was that they did not need high tech gadgets, video cameras or online social networks to keep tabs on everybody, you simply need an army an informers. And in a society where people w…

I agree with these observations. Unfortunately the people who lived all their lives in North America and Western Europe are very naive about what the communist societies really were and they are not aware that during the last 25 years their countries have evolved continuously, becoming every year more and more similar to the former communist countries. This refers not only to surveillance, censorship and loss of rights, but also to the creation of quasi-monopolies in almost every domain. Most people seem not to realize that communism was not different from capitalism, but it was the worst form of capitalism, where everything was done by a monopoly.

Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#26

Post by tobylane »

Jerry2 wrote: post #8

I think we're close to 1984 world and thought control... but coming from tech giants like Facebook and Google.

1984 was about a government doing it to us and we are aware. Huxley's A Brave New World was about capitalism doing it to us and we're unaware. It's a heavily underused better fitting reference.

Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#28

Post by dalbasal »

perlpimp wrote: post #12

Imo these filter blocks are problematic. Maybe google can flag the content with a visual cue instead of participating in censorship. I remember in high school we had a class 'critical thinking', wonder if it is still is taught and whether it is so in other places of education. People should filter content or at least be helped to instead of hering people away from 'harmful' topic. Behind fake news idea there is an el…

Feeble minds is a defeatist characterisation, and unhelpful.

People have the cognitive attributes that they do. We think in narratives. Our political thinking mode is entirely dominated by identity, whether ideological, ethnic or whatever. We prefer confirmation. etc. etc. We just aren’t scientific thinking machines. That’s why scientific methods are designed as they are. They strictly avoid the way people normally come to conclusions, even (especially) intellectual heavyweights that have dedicated their lives to rationality. Take away the scientific checks (e.g., the double blindness of experiments), and even the most robust minds are feeble in this sense.

The actual mechanisms of culture are too complex to understand, but components of culture and group behaviour can be understood well enough to steer things into certain directions.

The underlying problem (IMO) is that FB, Google and others are the only ones in position to play a role they do not want to play. In the past we had “trusted” publications, who had editors and such. We had softer institutions like “journalism,” the culture and methods associated with the profession. These had power, cultural force. None of these were anywhere near perfect (or even decent), but they did have some ability to distinguish between “popular” and “good”.

They don’t as much anymore. Google & FB do. They don’t want the job. We don’t really want them to have the job. Something new needs to emerge, and I don’t think that something is a more robust human brain.

Re: As Google Fights Fake News, Voices on the Margins Raise Alarm

#29

Post by thriftwy »

jankotek wrote: post #24
thriftwy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremist is the tag that Putin bolts on every opinion he doesn't like, so now I may assume you are a putinist.

Website that constantly talks about 'struggle' and 'revolution' is not extremist at all.

"Extremist" is a weasel word for when a person didn't really do anything yet, but you are already trying to censor them.
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