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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#591

Post by seanmcdirmid »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #589
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of our companies do thrive in china, and the rich people in the USA make lots of money off the arrangement. Don't think for a second that the relationship is one sided. Still, china could be a bit more fair and symmetrical in our trading relationship.

Perhaps you are not aware of how hard it is to get your money out of China. And others end in 'partnerships'

Having done it myself many times, I'm totally aware. Thankfully, as a foreigner or foreign company, I only need to present tax receipts. Still a PITA, but there are no hard limits at least.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#592

Post by ttflee »

Iv wrote: post #550
ttflee wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is that, from past experiences, censorship were rarely alleviated even after the event it was supposed to serve. Situations deteriorated year by year. First it was TCP reset by keyword, then came the DNS poisoning, and then the blockage of whole IP ranges for Google, Facebook, twitter and other User-generated-content sites. Unregistered VPNs are expected to be the next. Global leadership would be all but mira…

True. Hitting VPNs, however, is challenging a status-quo: before that they were tolerating that tech-savvy users could access internet outside China. It could be believed that they would let the people with enough of a legitimate reasonto pay for it access the outside. I have the impression that there are more channels for official complaints than we often believe as westerners. I think that they will receive critici…

The impact of so-called tech savvy users is exaggerated. Criticism from IT sector would be put out no harder than that in other cases. Organized commune hardly exists after so many years since the repression in 1989 and IT companies must be queuing in line to help out or the censorship would not be as effective as it is seen by now.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#593

Post by logfromblammo »

westiseast wrote: post #523
andy_ppp wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the lack of reciprocal tariffs introduced by the US or are there some I don’t know of? This is probably the economic equivalent of banning say mobile phones or some other large and important sector.

I think a lot of people feel the same way and it somewhat feeds into the Trump phenomenon. For years the thinking has been that China is liberalizing, and it will eventually open up and that reciprocal sanctions or tariffs will spark unnecessary protectionism and encourage China to reverse direction. A lot of people now, after 20-30 years of similar behaviour, believe that China was just gaming the system all along a…

Punitive import tariffs don't work as punishment. They convert a portion of the consumer benefit from trade into taxes, a portion into domestic producer benefit from trade, and throw the rest away as deadweight loss. The foreign producer-exporter is barely even scratched. It's just an excuse to grab money from domestic consumers using another country as the scapegoat.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#594

Post by usaar333 »

inimino wrote: post #582
usaar333 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VC This was really striking to me how bad Chinese-based ones were (which got me thinking about this issue). The QQ client doesn't even seem to work when I attempt to visit the international one; WeChat lacks a webapp with VC, has no Linux desktop app and the Windows desktop app I used had rendering difficulties with the self pip screen -- far worse experience compared to Skype and Google Hangouts. > Baidu translate…

> VC Consumers have an app in their pocket that has everyone they know in it and can make a video call with two taps. For corporate video conferencing there are paid solutions just like everywhere else. So a free desktop app like Skype for video conferencing has no appeal. > Baidu The Baidu translate app has all those features and even a mini app for conversations in a walkie-talkie-like mode. > Maps You can set a fu…

I'm thinking more along the lines of quality as well as features.

> VC

And both Hangouts and Skype both have very good mobile apps - at least on par with Wechat. The fact that the desktop component is limited sucks -- it makes it painful for me to say practice Chinese with relatives I have in China. (a laptop or desktop screen is a far better form factor than a small mobile device).

I agree with you that desktop is the 5% case, but that 5% is still a loss.

> Baidu

I just compared the Android apps side to side.

Google Translate's UX is far beyond Baidu's. Baidu's conversation mode requires holding a specific language button while I talk and releasing it when done. With Google, I can just turn the system on and have a conversation in both languages - it auto-detects the language spoken and pauses.

Google's camera based translation is also real time unlike Baidu.

> Maps

Transit: Google Maps also has this ability - it's also a simpler problem to follow train schedules than understand and route under historical traffic data. The historical driving feature is quite useful for Google when you are trying to plan any sort of outing. (If we're meeting tomorrow.. I need to know how much time to buffer in my schedule!)

> Email

Email is probably not a good item to discuss because the general public (i.e. not technologists) in America that only recently got on the Internet also favor other mediums over email. I'm only thinking of the technologist crowd here, but I don't have context on the Chinese one to comment.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#595

Post by Mikeb85 »

ernst_klim wrote: post #519
Mikeb85 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing the West does is principled, and the sooner people realise this the sooner they understand why the rest of the world reacts the way they do to the West. From destabilising Libya and Syria, to taking in refugees, to grandstanding with Russia, nothing is done for any set of moral principles. Libya and Syria were 2 nations that believed in Arab and African pan-nationalism, and tried to assert independence and se…

>we overthrew several governments on their borders and replaced them with pro-Western Dunno if you are trolling, but that's impossible. You can't just overthrow the government if people don't want it. And supporting the revolution is absolutely normal, even China does it in Myanma.

No, US NGOs, the CIA, and western governments had nothing to do with it... The Canadian government actually admitted to involvement in Maidan and providing support to "protestors".

Also, if they were wanted by a majority of the people, that's why pro-Russian governments were back in power soon after, right?

The Orange Revolution government barely lasted a couple years before imploding, and the Maidan government is going the same direction.

Even Mikheil Saakashvili can't work with Poroshenko, you'd think 2 CIA stooges would get along but apparently not.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#597

Post by sctb »

princetontiger wrote: post #137
chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

China hasn't invented anything. Why would this change today? I'm not sure why you're surprised. For a billion people, I think the WSJ says there is maybe 1 or 2 patents assigned to the country.

Since you continue to violate the guidelines with inflammatory nationalistic rants, we've banned the account.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#598

Post by mahyarm »

rwallace wrote: post #306
mahyarm wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unique tit-for-tat regulations of Chinese companies of what is shown in practice? "Our companies don't have freedoms X,Y,Z vs Chinese corps in china, so Chinese corps and investors will get the same special treatment in our country too".

On an ethical level, you're hurting people (e.g. Chinese workers) who had no part in the objectionable actions that prompted this. On a practical level, are there any cases in history where this has ever produced beneficial results?

China's is also hurting people with their behavior towards foreign companies in China in similar ways. Not to mention all the abuse china afflicts on it's own people with their power politics.

When someone is abusing you don't roll over, you create boundaries and walk away if they are violated.

And what is good about this practice is china has the power to stop this by treating everyone equally. Your not forcing things on china and you say you will stop when they stop.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#599

Post by y4mi »

logfromblammo wrote: post #593
westiseast wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people feel the same way and it somewhat feeds into the Trump phenomenon. For years the thinking has been that China is liberalizing, and it will eventually open up and that reciprocal sanctions or tariffs will spark unnecessary protectionism and encourage China to reverse direction. A lot of people now, after 20-30 years of similar behaviour, believe that China was just gaming the system all along a…

Punitive import tariffs don't work as punishment. They convert a portion of the consumer benefit from trade into taxes, a portion into domestic producer benefit from trade, and throw the rest away as deadweight loss. The foreign producer-exporter is barely even scratched. It's just an excuse to grab money from domestic consumers using another country as the scapegoat.

every tax ever conceived is ultimately always paid by the consumer, yes. The point of such a tariff is however to increase the price of the foreign product, essentially giving local competitors a price advantage.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#600

Post by vixen99 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #423
chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Chinese have no problem sharing. If you've used wechat you'll know it's western tech that has fallen behind.

Wiki says (though who wrote it?) 'It (wechat) is widely known as one of the world's most innovative and versatile app, as well as China's "App For Everything", with numerous unique functions and platforms ranging from 'payment' to 'social media' to 'services' to 'shopping' and more, that are equivalent to multiple Google Play or App Store's apps, but merged into one.

Is it that impressive vis a vis Western Tech?

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