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Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

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Re: Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

#211

Post by nf05papsjfVbc »

technofire wrote: post #179
nf05papsjfVbc wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone used their judgment this way, in a team of six, there are five others trying to save their own time and punishing the person who's worked to build up some knowledge. This has to be fixed by ensuring that the bus factor improves and the knowledge is spread around more. I disagree that the solution is to let everyone interrupt the one who is trying to get stuff done.

> punishing the person who's worked to build up some knowledge. ... I disagree that the solution is to let everyone interrupt the one who is trying to get stuff done. In essence we are talking about training new people and so this opinion seems selfish and unethical with respect to one's obligation to the firm. The senior person should sacrifice some productivity until the new people are up to speed so that eventuall…

I only spoke against interruptions - not against spending time spreading knowledge. That, in fact, is in my good books as I already stated in my comment.

Re: Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

#212

Post by throwme211345 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #208
throwme211345 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These were my comments alone as a 50 year old in addition to your narrative; not in correlation but in comparison. PC in this context meaning behaviors for the sake of change willy-nilly (think about the injection of feminine instead of masculine pronoun that was|is fashionable). I see the mercurial aspect of PC culture as reactive and dismissive and dislike it intensely. Everyone these days seem to have some form of…

"think about the injection of feminine instead of masculine pronoun that was|is fashionable" This seems to have settled, after a few years of mild confusion, on everyone agreeing to just use non-gendered "they/them" when the gender of the subject is unknown. Pretty easy, it has historical precedent, and it can't possibly exclude anyone from the conversation. Seems like progress, to me. Where's the harm in making your…

You didn't tackle any of the real criticism in my message.

You remark on a discrete symptom (which is a precursor) and you affirm it's essential importance to your life without any historical consciousness. And that is my basic gripe with PC culture: sensitivity to every little thing that you feel hurts you or impairs you or makes you feel included. Hell is other people, get over yourselves.

Re: Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

#214

Post by alien_at_work »

0xJRS wrote: post #176
alien_at_work wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's discouraging. MS did a study to determine offices improved productivity, so what happened?

Open office = more dense work areas = profit

That is certainly the idea in general but it will depend on how badly it affects worker productivity. It's just strange to see a company do a study, prove that offices produce the best results and still go with a measure that presumably isn't cost effective (else the initial study should have concluded that the difference was well within tolerable loss).

Re: Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

#215

Post by SwellJoe »

throwme211345 wrote: post #212
SwellJoe wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"think about the injection of feminine instead of masculine pronoun that was|is fashionable" This seems to have settled, after a few years of mild confusion, on everyone agreeing to just use non-gendered "they/them" when the gender of the subject is unknown. Pretty easy, it has historical precedent, and it can't possibly exclude anyone from the conversation. Seems like progress, to me. Where's the harm in making your…

You didn't tackle any of the real criticism in my message. You remark on a discrete symptom (which is a precursor) and you affirm it's essential importance to your life without any historical consciousness. And that is my basic gripe with PC culture: sensitivity to every little thing that you feel hurts you or impairs you or makes you feel included. Hell is other people, get over yourselves.

I couldn't make much sense out of the rest of your comment; it seemed vague and a little paranoid. So, I latched onto the one concrete thing in your comment, assuming it was demonstrative of what you were criticising.

"sensitivity to every little thing that you feel hurts you or impairs you or makes you feel included. Hell is other people, get over yourselves."

That seems simple when you're white and male, and the entire industry (and much of the world) treats your existence within it as a default and correct thing. I try to assume honest intentions when someone tells me something I've said/done is hurtful, and try to remember not to say/do it again.

The backlash against "PC culture" just comes off as really entitled and overly sensitive, to me (which is, ironically the same thing anti-PC people accuse everyone else of being). I don't know how to resolve that clash. I, personally, want to be part of solutions to problems rather than an impediment.

I view the imbalance in our industry as a problem worth solving; welcoming more women and under-represented people of color into our industry as equals (even when it means making changes to how we do things and how we talk about things) is a net positive for everyone. It's just increasing the pool of talent devoted to solving the world's technical problems and that can't be bad.

But, it sounds like I still may not be understanding your position. Can you provide another concrete example of what you're talking about? I noted your preference for big-picture rather than details earlier, but I'm clearly not grasping the big picture you're drawing...I need more details to understand where you're coming from

Re: Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

#216

Post by throwme211345 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #215
throwme211345 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't tackle any of the real criticism in my message. You remark on a discrete symptom (which is a precursor) and you affirm it's essential importance to your life without any historical consciousness. And that is my basic gripe with PC culture: sensitivity to every little thing that you feel hurts you or impairs you or makes you feel included. Hell is other people, get over yourselves.

I couldn't make much sense out of the rest of your comment; it seemed vague and a little paranoid. So, I latched onto the one concrete thing in your comment, assuming it was demonstrative of what you were criticising. "sensitivity to every little thing that you feel hurts you or impairs you or makes you feel included. Hell is other people, get over yourselves." That seems simple when you're white and male, and the en…

You like to characterize as vague (or worse) what can be reasonably inferred or researched and have a knack for constructing positions by pleading ignorance: which makes it simpler when creating straw men and redirecting|reducing conversation scope.

You sound naive and well meaning but I think that is artifice. Your comments reflect the essentially reactive nature of the PC movement (to me) which is to reject what you find distasteful and inject whatever you believe in (edit: with no real historical consciousness).

Do you believe that experienced white men should be displaced (by default) by persons of color or women in a profession because of skill equivalency? Is there a ratio for that displacement? Is it based on merit or is it based on something else?

Re: Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

#217

Post by technofire »

nf05papsjfVbc wrote: post #211
technofire wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> punishing the person who's worked to build up some knowledge. ... I disagree that the solution is to let everyone interrupt the one who is trying to get stuff done. In essence we are talking about training new people and so this opinion seems selfish and unethical with respect to one's obligation to the firm. The senior person should sacrifice some productivity until the new people are up to speed so that eventuall…

I only spoke against interruptions - not against spending time spreading knowledge. That, in fact, is in my good books as I already stated in my comment.

I guess I see these as 2 sides of the same coin; if the knowledge was properly spread via training and easy-to-use documentation, the junior developers would not need to interrupt much during the day.

Re: Paying top employees the highest salaries in the market

#218

Post by Amokrane »

kc10 wrote: post #92
ryankupyn wrote: post #64

The thing that surprises me is that, after paying these engineers seven figures, they're still sticking them in open plan offices (as far as I can tell from the photos). Though I do know some people who can work effectively in that environment, it would be interesting to compare ever-so-slightly-cheaper engineers + a less-distracted work environment.

I personally love working close with my team in an open-setting. That's the reason I go to office every day even though my employer offers WFH. I just prefer turning around and asking a question or have a quick discussion. If everyone is working from home or in their personal offices, I hate having to get on a call or schedule a meeting to gather everyone to a meeting room for a quick discussion. Sure, at times it ca…

I have seen open-setting that are pretty quiet and where you can get more or less work done during regular work hours. The open space where I work today, though, is an absolute nightmare. It's not that I get interrupted for technical questions, I am interrupted for all sort of things: people around me telling jokes, playing basket-ball, laughing, singing, gossiping, reading their news feed out loud...

The thing that baffles me the most is: the person that generates much of the noise is actually quite productive, but destroys all the productivity around him.

Someone from management obviously needs to step in and do something about it. But they are probably afraid of loosing half the workforce in that area of the office, if they did anything serious to prevent this to happen.

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