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How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

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Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#191

Post by hga »

sliverstorm wrote: post #81
sgt wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice it just doesn't work very well sometimes. I think it's better to risk letting more child abusers off the hook, than potentially ruining the lives of decent parents like these.

If it's hurt adults or let children be hurt, I don't know if I can agree with you. Children are much more powerless than most adults, and the strong should always stick up for the weak.

You're ignoring how this directly hurts the children, and indirectly by messing up their parents and the latter's relationship with their children.

It really comes down to a simple question: who owns your children, you or the state? As of late, it's the latter.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#192

Post by warfangle »

logicalmind wrote: post #151
olliesaunders wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is accusing them of negligence going to generate more evidence against you? If no-one stands up to this organization this sort of thing is going to continue to happen.

It's really not difficult for them to find some violation that could be some kind of "dangerous" situation. Is every outlet in your house child-proof? Is every bookshelf, dresser, etc. secured to the wall so it cannot tip over onto a child? Are your toilet lids locked closed to a child cannot fall into them? There really is no limit to the things they can find. Even worse, they can bring your children to psychologist…

"Even worse, they can bring your children to psychologists and ask them leading questions that could lead to concerns about anything they like."

I'm curious about this. In the original article, the writer mentions insisting that the interviews be recorded (and even then, they weren't).

Would you get in trouble via wiretap laws if you bugged your child during these interviews to hold a recording as evidence in the event leading questions are asked?

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#193

Post by hga »

cookiecaper wrote: post #65
caf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is deeply terrifying that we should not just self-censor completely innocent acts, but that you think it should be second nature to any "reasonable, non-naive person". Avoiding completely normal behaviour because of a fear of constant surveillance and being turned in by those around you? This does not strike you as completely f*cked up?

I have to agree that it's necessary. It is fscked up that people have to take that attitude, yes, but if you don't want to end up in a big mess, it's a legitimate position. People are hysterical about sexual abuse of children. I don't know what it is. They are all manipulated into it one way or another, I don't really get it. I agree that this is sad. I agree that parents should be able to take pictures of kids runni…

If you really want to understand all this read this essay: http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-cla...

Once you understand the goals of the various parties involved, it all makes sense ... and there is no hysteria involved whatsoever.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#194

Post by hga »

Recently I've noticed a ... crystallization of a meme about America's ruling class and this is the most trenchant essay on the subject ... and one that just happens to explain a whole lot of what's going on here at the broad level. Highly recommended: http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-cla...

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#195

Post by jbooth »

jacquesm wrote: post #190
jbooth wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No data to support something? How many times has social services taken kids away from parents who were actually bad? 100s of times a day? How many lives and/or psyches have they saved this week? The problem is indeed the politics, because if you're looking for a campaign issue, you can just propose some ridiculous draconian system like "we'll take away kids immediately upon accusation". If your opponent predictably o…

My 'anecdotes' are unfortunately all I've got, there are most likely instances where kids were taken away from parents that were 'actually bad', but I don't actually know of any of these. I do know of one overlooked case but needless to say the child protection services are not interested in that one because daddy happens to be a fairly influential person in that particular community. But even in that case I'd wager…

The laws set their mandate. DSS or whomever is operating according to the laws that have been passed. If the law is reactionary, then it's their job to be reactionary. If the law is lax, it's their job to be lax.

As far as the people being the problem, well, I won't ever claim any organization is made up of entirely perfect people. But I'm not lining up to do that job, and you're clearly not, either. So in light of that, unless you're volunteering to do a better job, it might be worth considering that many of those in the job are doing what they can with what they have.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#197

Post by nprincigalli »

Confusion wrote: post #34
cagey wrote: post #11

We had "a run in" with Child Protective Services about 10 years ago. The charge: "Shaken Baby Syndrome" (symptoms medically caused; a long story). The "advocates" at CPS had me and my wife (in hospital having just delivered child #2) tried and convicted immediately. Only, I think, thru my self-advocacy directly to the head of pediatrics at the county hospital where my child was being held for examination, resulted in…

(at best they were all "just doing their jobs", just like concentration camp guards) Quoted for truth. This is not an invocation of Godwin's law, but the closest possible analogy, as these bureaucrats make the exact same repugnant decisions someone like Eichmann made. They fully well know they ruin the lives of many innocent folks; at least half the cases turn out to have been nothing. The problem is not 'the governm…

It surprises me that when it comes to bureaucrats causing harm while "just doing their jobs" no one has mentioned the Milgram experiment yet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment ).

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#199

Post by Tycho »

bpyne wrote: post #166
pyre wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost have a feeling that in the US we are building up to a Hilter-esque take-over of the government. It's just taking a lot longer than it took the Nazis because the times aren't as extreme, and our system of government was better designed to resist such things...

It's troubling that you make this observation. A friend of mine did his Ph.D. in East European studies before the Berlin Wall fell. He told me 15 years ago, over a few Newcastles, that "the US is ripe for fascism". I find the thought terrifying still. Let's hope the US political process keeps such a Dark Age from occurring. EDIT: Corrected typo: Lets -> Let's

There's a book on this very subject called 'The Ominous Parallels.' I've been meaning to read it.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#200

Post by philwelch »

ugh wrote: post #125
jrockway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has one of the absurdly strictest set of laws for sex offenses against minors no sane politician would ever propose a relaxation in these laws So what did the other countries, that have less-strict laws, do? (I agree that Americans are very afraid of anything sexual, but I'm not sure how this happened. Not everyone is a Puritan.)

So what did the other countries, that have less-strict laws, do? It’s not a very nice answer but I think they have less direct democracies and delegate many of the nitty-gritty details of the law to experts. That’s also why there is no death penalty in Europe.

"That’s also why there is no death penalty in Europe."

Really?

My theory was always this: Frontier cultures need death penalties because they don't have the resources to keep very many people imprisoned for very long. The same is true of nomadic cultures, which explains a lot of things in the Bible. (The Old Testament has a long list of crimes, all of which are punishable with stoning. Which is sensible for a nomadic culture wandering around a region that has a lot of rocks lying around.)

Vast parts of the US were a frontier culture until maybe 100 years ago (less in Alaska, more in Massachusetts). Europe has been settled for centuries. Which one do you predict would give up the death penalty first?

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