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Why SQL is beating NoSQL, and what this means for the future of data

blog.timescale.com

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Re: Why SQL is beating NoSQL, and what this means for the future of data

#3

Post by Clubber »

So the long and short of it is SQL would be a good common language for relational and NoSQL style databases.

I would agree with that, but since they different monsters (RDBMS and NoSQL), it will take a bit of tweaking to find a good dialect (how do joins work, etc). Of course it makes sense to adapt the NoSQL databases to the existing ANSI SQL rather than make existing ANSI SQL users switch to a new type of SQL that accommodates NoSQL, but we'll see what happens.

Google create a "Standard SQL," but I'm not familiar with it.

Here is a link on Google Standard SQL:

https://cloud.google.com/bigquery/docs/reference/standard-sq...

Re: Why SQL is beating NoSQL, and what this means for the future of data

#7

Post by peterwwillis »

SQL wins because big iron wins. At the end of the day, the big, clunky, slow, complicated, aggravating, old systems stick around because they are built to stick around.

Looking at, say, an eventually consistent distributed decentralized kv store, one might be tricked into believing it's simple enough to deploy with enough nodes and general enough interfaces that you can build a complicated system on top of it if needed, and rely on its supppsed simplicity and scalability the rest of the time. But nobody tells you about the shitty implementation. The replication that doesn't resume, the stodgy transfers, the imbalanced distribution, the consensus conflict, the infinitely expanding disk, the churning CPU. How at scale, if all the other aspects of your infra aren't scaling along with your data size, the whole thing blows.

Traditional SQL databases end up being many times simpler in practice, and because of their inherent scaling limitations, much easier to manage. And most importantly: their implementations aren't buggy.

SQL is just more reliable.

Re: Why SQL is beating NoSQL, and what this means for the future of data

#8

Post by taeric »

I do find the amusing "backronym" rather hard to take at face value. I also found the old critics of SQL databases odd focus on the query language hard to take. The problem wasn't the queries, per se. The problem was the power of the queries for interactive uses and how that doesn't scale up.

That is, the problem with most SQL databases is that you need some pretty specialized knowledge in order to construct good queries. Not shockingly, the problem with most modern key/value (or otherwise) datastores is that you need some pretty specialized knowledge in order to construct good queries.

Now, for things getting off the ground, this is probably fine. Most of the places you will go south with queries is in the ad-hoc style query. Of course, that style query is perfect for interactive use. Ideal, even. It falls on its face if it is supposed to support an automated case at high TPS. Unfortunately, automated cases at low TPS often turn into automated cases at high TPS. Worse, interactive cases at ridiculously low tps often turn into automated cases at low TPS. Which, of course, just feeds itself.

How this feeds itself, of course, is you can explore your data much more effectively if there is an ad-hoc query engine. So, we are now seeing the resurgence of ad-hoc queries and the learning that those can lead to some powerful insights.

Re: Why SQL is beating NoSQL, and what this means for the future of data

#10

Post by SmellTheGlove »

This was a nice read for the history. Honestly, being in a big legacy industry (Insurance), it's as though NoSQL never happened. We're too big, at least my organization, to have made the wholesale change and we've been plugging along mostly in Teradata and DB2 for a long time. Teradata in particular has performed well across a variety of use cases, its only large downside being the cost.

Anyhow, only point I'd add is that I'm not sure that SQL-like languages added on top of NoSQL solutions was really that bad of a thing. It's not as though there's one flavor of SQL to rule them all on RDBMSs. I get that the bones are largely the same - SELECT, FROM, WHERE, most join types, aggregates, etc. But take a really common analytic use case - persisted transactional data. Something like this -

SELECT A, B, C, FROM SomeTbl WHERE SomeDate BETWEEN SomeBegin AND SomeEnd QUALIFY RANK() OVER (PARTITION BY A, B ORDER BY SomeOtherDate DESC) = 1

Pretty sure that SELECT, FROM, WHERE will work just about anywhere. That QUALIFY clause is written for Teradata, and once you get into the ordered analytic functions (as one example), you need to know the implementation relevant to the RDBMS you're dealing with. It's not uncommon for a large enterprise to have MS SQL, DB2, Teradata, Oracle, etc. all under one roof. As a data engineer, you still need to know the differences - first to get the data out, and then to optimize.

Dunno, I could be way off on this, but that's been my experience at least.

I think the bigger issue is that you can use an RDBMS to do NoSQL-like things, such as key-value stores, with the flexibility to structure your data if you need that later. So why not start with a relational database?

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