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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#411

Post by hbosch »

shpx wrote: post #109
mtgx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VPNs probably. They've started to crack down on those lately, too. Also, a random tweet I saw today apparently with a recording of China's CCTV surveillance system: https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 No wonder China wants to be #1 in "artificial intelligence". Surveillance and censorship are likely the primary motivators for that.

"One of the prominent Chinese VCs, Neil Shen from Sequoia China, was on the Economist's podcast recently talking about AI in China. When the host asked Shen about the Chinese state's use of AI in monitoring the citizens of China, Shen clammed up. It is an amazing bit of audio (starts around minute 8.) https://www.acast.com/theeconomistasks/theeconomistasks-howd... " https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15017622

Wow. This was fascinating, and terrifying both. Thank you for that link. To anyone else, I recommend listening to the whole 16 minutes actually - makes Mr. Shen's silence that much more stark.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#412

Post by inimino »

usaar333 wrote: post #373
westiseast wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a China hawk, but this is what has been happening and what will continue happening unless something massively more drastic than blocking a single minority foreign app happens. I think there's a tendency for people to overestimate the importance of foreign apps to Chinese consumers and to underestimate the Chinese market. It's almost laughable that people think blocking WhatsApp will make any difference to Chinese…

The argument is more along the lines that China gets it slower due to a combination of tech not being released and research and communication with foreign users being more difficult due to web censorship. As one example, outside of tech areas that lacked strong traditional incumbents (fintech, e-commerce) or where strong cultural/linguistic context is needed (Chinese NLP), what areas are there where Chinese products…

> I'd argue that Google's products for photos, email, maps/navigation, video conferencing, and translation -- all blocked in China -- exceed that of any competitor, Chinese or otherwise

I'd be interested to hear why you think so. As far as I know none of these are better than their Chinese counterparts in any meaningful way. (Competition isn't the right word as these are different markets.)

Baidu Translate is at least as good as Google Translate, certainly better for translating to and from Chinese.

Google Maps is not relevant at all in the Chinese market because they don't have the data. Setting that aside, I am not aware of any technical edge they have over Baidu.

Chinese people generally don't use email, but there are mail providers that are comparable to what Google has.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#413

Post by seanmcdirmid »

callalex wrote: post #410
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only users of WeChat have strong ties to China, and use it for those ties (e.g. WePay). Even in HK and Taiwan, WeChat is not used outside of those reasons. WeChat working in the US is like UnionPay working in the US. Ya, its great if you are a Chinese tourist or an expat with a Chinese bank account, but it is irrelevant if you aren't, UnionPay isn't going to start taking over the American ATM card market.

My anecdotal experience contradicts yours (unfortunately I don’t think there is data available to us to help prove anything). In San Francisco many first, second, and third generation Chinese people extensively use wechat due to network effects, familiarity, stickers etc.

My list said Wechat isn't used unless it is for something mainland china related. The same is true in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#414

Post by nikdaheratik »

AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #364
chaostheory wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is sometimes forced to watch media from the mainland due to family, unless censorship is relaxed - this isn't going to happen. Creativity is inhibited when you have the cost of wondering whether what you've written or what you'll say will land you in jail. This problem is multiplied 1000x if you work in anything related to media or art. Consequently mainland entertainment will always be safe and boring…

No innovation in entertainment means culture safety means prolonged rule of the party. You are just confirming their logic.

This is just silly. If the local entertainment isn't very good, then people will find something better that isn't controlled by the Chinese government or shaped the rest of the Chinese culture, which is how you get Western values along with Hollywood movies. And you also get a culture that ignores censorship laws, because they are stupid, which can lead to ignoring other laws that are stupid.

I'm not saying pirated Marvel movies are going to bring down the PRC, but there's no reason to think that bad Chinese movies that no one wants to watch will help the party, either.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#415

Post by nikdaheratik »

AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #367
jacquesm wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is going to be tough. A whole generation of Chinese see the west as cool and to be emulated. I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much.

And that's supposed to offend them? how? What makes you think Chinese are after making others follow them? I think they are pretty happy with the way things are now. Do you think that's what we are after? Making others emulate us? That sounds racist to me.

The choice for China is to either be an insulated and isolated country with little exposure to the rest of the world, or to reach out and contribute in the conversation. I think we're already decades past the point where they can close themselves off, but if they want their own people to appreciate their culture, they have to be just as innovative as the rest of the world. Otherwise, people will stop listening and believing in what the party has to say.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#416

Post by TylerE »

nradov wrote: post #370
dv_dt wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's speculative how much of the Japanese company design/assemble in the US is from trying to serve the market more closely, and how much is from trying to align with current or potential US trade restrictions. I think one might argue that there is a similarity of motivation in the US preserving auto industry capability in-nation with China wanting to develop tech capability in-nation. The motivation is similar, but…

In terms of consumer preferences, the US and Chinese auto markets are actually pretty similar right now. Chinese buyers seem to want most of the same things as US buyers. Of course they're not exactly the same but more alike than Japan, Europe, Africa, or South America. Australia is also fairly similar to China and the US. It's hard to predict the impact of potential trade restrictions and electrification requirement…

I'd say it's more like the US market of 20 or 30 years ago. They sell lots of Buicks.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#417

Post by chetanahuja »

Chinese debt is a ticking time bomb. http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-debt-risk-to-financia...

When (not if) it goes off, it'll not only be a huge shock to the world economy, it'll most likely also result in huge unrest inside China. The only political tool the communist party has known is to suppress dissent. I expect things to get worse in the next few years... not better.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#418

Post by detailyang »

victornomad wrote: post #29

Last year I went to China, wanted to show a web project I had in internet and it didnt work at all. My hosting was working perfectly and not blocked at all since I could SSH there. Then I realized that I had some jquery loading from a Google CDN and of course the cdn was banned there. And of course CSS fonts from google and youtube videos didnt work either... I learned 2 lessons. 1) dont rely on CDNs if you want to h…

If you want to access from china, it cannot get more speed without CDN. So give up china:)

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#419

Post by vorg »

FabHK wrote: post #271
gaius wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China will reach some predetermined level of technology that The Party decides they are comfortable with, then close their borders and just get on with being the Middle Kingdom in splendid isolation. That is my prediction. I don't think they feel the need to project power and remake the world the way the US and previously the UK do/did. Maybe they will disengage from the world and look spacewards.

Not entirely implausible. That's in a sense what they did after they sent out Admiral Zheng He with a fleet of ships and thousands of men in the early 15th centuryas far as East Africa - they concluded "meh, nothing interesting there", and shut down the whole program. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

The funding for Zheng He's voyages was pulled because Ming China needed the resources to defend against renewed attacks from the north, i.e. Mongolia and Siberia. Because Britain is an easily defended island and the Iberian peninsula has the Pyrenee mountains acting as a defensive wall, England and Spain didn't have this type of problem when they sent out their fleets.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#420

Post by jjcc »

tryingagainbro wrote: post #71
dmix wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important for Westerners to realize that the Chinese never had a Locke, or a Rousseau, or a Hobbes. Neither did South America but they were inspired by all of them when they formed their modern republics after the various revolutions, after kicking out the Spanish rulers in the 1800s the military generals had a choice to form democracies and they sought inspiration from Europe, just as America did a century ea…

Serious question: what would happen if China abolished the Communist Party or whatever they call and chose democracy. Chaos? Breakdown of the country into separate states /provinces? Civil war? Military rule? I would not want to the one in charge the day after. Obviously (moderated) rule by the people is best but not sure how China and say countries in the mold of Saudi Arabia will handle it.

There are different strong claims based on ideologies while none can be falsified. Let's look at the history: 1.The revolution of 1911 that overthrown the Qing dynasty was based on the idea that a democratic and prosperous new China will be established. It didn't happen. Instead there was tens of years of bloody civil war. 2.In the Culture Revolution between 1966-1976, the grass root democracy was encouraged by Chairman Mao at the beginning for his political purpose. There was a chaos all over the country that every cities/towns/factories/schools there would be (almost) exactly two parties fighting with each other while both claimed to loyal to Chairman Mao.

The Chinese elite already know what's the consequence CCP is gone. Most normal Chinese as well as all Westerners don't know.

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