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China Blocks WhatsApp

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#351
post #124

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

I think censorship is only part of the reason. Protectionism and national security probably plays a role aswell. Look at the list of websites they block: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland... Google, facebook, instagram, twitter etc. Those are one-way streets that provide next to no jobs, little tech transfer and no tax revenue to the countries they do business in, but tend to outcompete the…

"It's surprising that any country would allow that to continue unchecked."

Hold on now - Google still provides immense value.

And what does it cost?

Nothing.

The 'consumer surplus' value of G and FB are quite immense.

Google captures a tiny fraction of the value they create via ads.

What would Canada do without Google?

There is no Google here.

If we started with with 'government backing' it would be a s-show.

I understand about the issue from taxation perspective etc. - but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Google has a high degree of utility and FB does as well for many individuals.

Some jiggering with tax and investment laws might help, but on the whole, this is a 'good thing'.

Twitter. Well ... America can keep that :):):)

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#353

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Why wouldn't the Chinese hear about the next best mouse trap if whatsapp is banned?

Why wouldn't the manufacturer of next best mouse trap like to sell the product in China if whatsapp is banned?

As far as Chinese government is concerned there is no downside to banning whatsapp.

It's not like whatsapp has turned into substitute for Nature for scientific publication.

Many capitalist companies like the controls of communist China. They find it easier to do business in. Does that make China more innovative for new businesses compared to open monitoring in the western world?

Is Apple going to move manufacturing to USA because China banned whatsapp? hell, no.

China gets to make an example out of whatsapp to make smaller players play by their rules, giving auditing powers and speech controls to Chinese government, or get locked out of 15% of world's emerging market population.

Lesson to progressive liberals of western world, appreciate what you got here and work to protect it, instead of insulting western values at every opportunity.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#354

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

WeChat is pretty innovative

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply factually wrong. The US has much better press freedoms, freedom of speech and gun ownership rights than any other large country. It has nothing to do with an echo chamber. The laws are objectively very different. Comparing surveillance by the NSA to information accessibility in general is disingenuous at best.

> The US has much better press freedoms, freedom of speech and gun ownership rights than any other country. Any country that requires and authorizes gun ownership is broken to start with. That you think this is somehow superior and better is.. I don't know what to say. > Comparing surveillance by the NSA to access to information in general is disingenuous at best. What's the difference?

Guns are a constitutional right and a crucial part of self-defense. Not sure what the issue is to you.

>What's the difference?

One is access, one is privacy. Very different things. Why conflate them.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#356

Edit: This is not a justification or defense of internet censorship. It is an explanation of why the Chinese public may be more willing to accept strict government controls than the West. While most Westerners see actions like this as serious violations of individual rights, the Chinese are used to such exercises of control by their leaders. There is a firm historical basis for similar behavior going back thousands o…

It's important for Westerners to realize that the Chinese never had a Locke, or a Rousseau, or a Hobbes. The foundational political philosophy taken for granted in the West has no parallel in China. Their political philosophy is grounded in a very different hierarchy of values.

I was quite young around the time of Tienanmen Square, but I seem to recall a Statue of Liberty and a lot of talk about democracy, before the protests were crushed. I wonder how Locke, or a Rousseau, or a Hobbes would have fared in the face of the equivalent state suppression.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#357
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard about a certain drone manufacturer, DJI?

I'm certainly not saying that there aren't actual Chinese products that are selling. It's just not the norm. DJI is a great company but not indicative of the general ecosystem of China.

There are a lot of Chinese companies that are doing amazing things that many of us in the West have not heard of. Have you heard of Broad?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is WeChat, and it is far more successful than WhatsApp.

With WhatsApp having over 1 Billion daily active users [1], I find that really hard to believe, but assuming that all of China's population is on WeChat ... My point is that WeChat does not exist for me and probably never will. [1] https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000631/Connecting-One-Billion-Us...

If DAU is your only metric, sure. WeChat has a horizontal breadth that Facebook Messenger and WhatsApp have been trying to copy though. The equivalent of ApplePay, Venmo, basic online shopping, etc are all in WeChat.

https://a16z.com/2015/08/06/wechat-china-mobile-first/

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. My question was rhetorical. It was in response to someone saying that apps outside of China are unimportant and small. 2. No single country has a monopoly on innovation. Consequently the sharing of ideas from different locations and cultures is really important for moving forward. You miss out on this benefit when you consciously work to block it. Historically, the last time China was this arrogant about isolation…

China's not blocking out the sharing of ideas though. Until a few months ago, Andrew Ng worked at Baidu! They are isolating data , but hoarding data is a competitive advantage in a way that isolating knowledge isn't.

> China's not blocking out the sharing of ideas though. Until a few months ago, Andrew Ng worked at Baidu!

Ok they are bottlenecking data... As I've already mentioned this is an extremely inefficient way to share data. Sharing data using physically present word of mouth is a lot more expensive and slower than sharing it instantly via an open internet connection.

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