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Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

lareviewofbooks.org

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Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#61
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely counter to the thesis in the article. For example: > Looking back from two decades later, Next Generation (1987–94), Deep Space Nine (1993–99), and Voyager (1995–2001) feel like a single continuous 1990’s moment, a moment that began in a renewed liberal optimism for multiculturalism and progress and the general advancement of humanity. Where is the SJWism and PC culture which saddles the latest ST…

I never really agreed with this tacit assumption everyone makes that ST was this super-progressive show. If you're really paying attention, and with the exception of DS-9, almost all of the heroes are white and educated (or their sidekicks) and all the villains are dark and barbaric. Seems straight up racist to me.

Points which are raised in the article, at least somewhat:

> yes, there was diversity on the bridge, but not that much of it, not really. Uhuru was a service worker and Worf was a punching bag; when the show made a black captain, was it a coincidence that the show also became “darker” and less optimistic, when its characters started to be “flawed” and “ambiguous”? Voyager had a female captain, but it marooned her to the farthest reaches of the galaxy (and the less said about the garbage politics of the reboot movies, the better). But the point is this: Star Trek has always wanted to be more progressive than it ever really managed to be, because it wanted its cake and also to eat it. The future was a human race that had perfected itself, but which also felt comfortable—for white men—because not so much had changed. We were still in charge.

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#62
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything by Alastair Reynolds (but Revelation Space is a good place to start).

Yes! Revenger is a good start too.

Also the audiobooks of Reynolds work are wonderful themselves. The narrator John Lee is a master of his art form:

https://tantor.com/narrator/john-lee.html

(Sadly he did not narrate Revenger, which is part of why I haven't experienced it yet. Thanks for the tip though and I'll add it to my list. John Lee did do all of the Revelation Space universe however, including the short stories.)

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong there. I deleted it so I could take the time to expand on it beyond that glib knee-jerk reaction, which I regret posting even for the very brief period it was online.

Go to your profile, put a number into the "Delay" field. This is how I (usually) deal with my urge to post glib knee-jerk reactions. I have two minutes to edit and/or delete them before anyone else can see them.

Thank you! I didn't know what that meant; that's a really useful feature.

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#64
post #24
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nod-ignore-and-keep-reading Lit Crit academese filler thing, then? I guess it stood out to me because the review doesn't have much of that, otherwise, and because the paragraph it's in seemed to be making some kind of point, though I couldn't decipher what it was in such a way that that sentence contributed anything.

I've not read Lit Crit. I have read history. The European colonial period was justified using logic very similar to the argument described in this article. British colonialism specifically argued for Anglo-Saxon superiority, and the Kipling's "The White Man's Burden: The United States and the Philippine Islands" used a similar logic to argue that the US should take over the Philippines.

I get what "a Victorian faith in white mythologies" means re: racist colonialism and cultural imperialism, I just don't get what it means for the show to "still [believe] in 'culture' with a Victorian faith in white mythologies". The scare-quoted (I think?) "culture", in the context of the rest of the sentence, is what's getting me. To believe in "culture" with a victorian faith in white mythologies. That's some badly criss-crossing modifiers and a really unclear use of quotes, as I see it, standing out in an otherwise fairly comprehensible paragraph.

I guess I'm also a little confused that the review complains in such strong language[1] about what looks to be the most interesting thing in the show, assuming the writers have lead with this material for the reason that they intend to return to it though the rest of the season and need, you know, somewhere to go with it, so they can't just start at the end. If it finds a way to retain aliens-as-projections-of-human-psyco/social-demons of traditional Trek (and much popular sci-fi) but also address the definitely-smells-of-racism problems that naturally come with doing that for as long as Trek's done it... god, that'll be among the most interesting things Trek's ever done, and if the writers are competent then they sure seem to be setting up for something along those lines. It's easily the most promising thematic direction the first part of the series has set up, judging from this review, so wow, should they ever not clean it up, please. Dig in, get dirty, and find a way out that's a little more novel and nuanced than "hur hur see it was racism all along and now our protagonist learned a lesson!" and this'll be one for the ages.

[1] "We shall see. But to get there—and I have to say this as clearly as possible—this show needs to clean up its fucking act with respect to the deeply racist portrayal of its Klingons."

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#65
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, isn't The Orville a parody of (primarily) Star Trek ? (I have not watched it.) I can't reconcile "parody" with "spiritual sequel". One would possibly make me laugh, the other is often a metaphor for more serious issues IRL.

It's advertised as a comedy show and with Seth MacFarlane (of Family Guy) headlining it I also assumed it was some cheap Galaxy Quest-esque jab at Star Trek. There's some of that, in particular taking some jabs at Star Trek tropes (e.g. one situation being neatly resolved by the crew using seatbelts)[1]. But it's not just some cheap comedy. Yes there's campy humor that's basically the equivalent of TOS not taking its…

Episode 3 was great. Very happy to see an outcome where earth culture didn't automatically win.

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not a 'hippie dippy idea' in 2017 to have a 'Black Woman' in charge of something. I completely agree! But neither is it "saddling the show with SJWism and PC culture." It's just... a normal, unremarkable thing, which as you say the vast majority of people won't care about one way or the other.

I think the commenter has a point. From a review: "T'Kuvma, the Klingon leader, has a rallying cry of “Remain Klingon .... loathes the Federation ideals of equality, diversity, and peace. " Those are nice ideals, and the work in a nation like America, which is 'an idea'. But consider for a moment that 95% of people outside America live in 'ethnic groups' - and who's ethnic identities are existentially challenged by a…

I'm having a really difficult time connecting the points you're making about corporate globalism -- much of which I agree with! -- with the comment we're responding to.

My sole point was that Star Trek has literally always been explicitly about idealized, utopian social justice -- so complaining that it's in decline because of SJWism is ridiculous. Star Trek was 100% PC SJW from day one.

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#67

Based on the website address, I thought the article would be about written science fiction, which continues to move forward if you ignore recommendations from people who don't actually like science fiction. I think "The Martian" counts as moving forward, but I'm much less happy with most of the books Amazon recommends for me. But the article is about television. I really am not qualified to say much about television…

> special effects will keep production costs high.

The vast majority of written science fiction doesn't need a lot of special effects.

There are almost uncountably many stories that could be transferred to television or film at no more cost than any other drama. Take Clifford Simak's Way Station for instance, most of Ray Bradbury's stories, J. G. Ballard, and dozens or hundreds more. Even stories with a grand idea and scope like Clarke and Baxter's Light of Other Days hardly need much in the way of complex sets or difficult special effects.

Why is it that science fiction in video form always has to be space opera, alien invasions and so on?

If we are going to go for special effects let's not waste them on more space cowboys. Let's have Charlie Stross's Accelerando and Saturn's Children or Ken McLeod's Sky Road, etc.

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to your profile, put a number into the "Delay" field. This is how I (usually) deal with my urge to post glib knee-jerk reactions. I have two minutes to edit and/or delete them before anyone else can see them.

Thank you! I didn't know what that meant; that's a really useful feature.

I set it up after making a regrettable post that was replied to before I could delete it. It wasn't the worst thing I could've posted, but as I recall it wasn't a fair reply to whoever it was. I strongly dislike people doing that to me because it completely disrupts the conversation flow. So to resolve the conflict, I give myself two minutes to be able to freely delete things, which is still short enough that the conversation won't be unduly delayed.

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#69
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, isn't The Orville a parody of (primarily) Star Trek ? (I have not watched it.) I can't reconcile "parody" with "spiritual sequel". One would possibly make me laugh, the other is often a metaphor for more serious issues IRL.

It's advertised as a comedy show and with Seth MacFarlane (of Family Guy) headlining it I also assumed it was some cheap Galaxy Quest-esque jab at Star Trek. There's some of that, in particular taking some jabs at Star Trek tropes (e.g. one situation being neatly resolved by the crew using seatbelts)[1]. But it's not just some cheap comedy. Yes there's campy humor that's basically the equivalent of TOS not taking its…

Cool, thanks for a more in depth description. Sounds like it is worth watching an episode or two for myself, I'll give it a whirl.

Re: Why did science fiction stop moving forward?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong there. I deleted it so I could take the time to expand on it beyond that glib knee-jerk reaction, which I regret posting even for the very brief period it was online.

Go to your profile, put a number into the "Delay" field. This is how I (usually) deal with my urge to post glib knee-jerk reactions. I have two minutes to edit and/or delete them before anyone else can see them.

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