Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What the elite expect and receive from an Ivy League education

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–206 of 206 posts

Re: What the elite expect and receive from an Ivy League education

#201

Post by vilmosi »

jameshart wrote: post #88
vostok wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In academic circles, yes. Socially, not so much. A huge portion of the middle class in the UK went to Oxford or Cambridge. Something like 25% of Etonians get into Oxford or Cambridge. For the Westminster school that number is something like 45%. Harvard does not have that same grip on the corresponding class stratum in the US, but Harvard also has far fewer undergraduates than Oxford or Cambridge and the US is a much…

Eton and Westminster schools are not open to the 'middle class'. Of course, they'll accept the upper class, because that's traditional, but what they really want is the ruling class, which is no longer the same thing. But mere middle class?

"Middle class" in the UK is what you would consider "upper class".

Re: What the elite expect and receive from an Ivy League education

#202

Post by empath75 »

WalterBright wrote: post #114
ahelwer wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A grade is supposed to represent your ability and understanding of a topic, but that's only half the equation. Are exams an adequate proxy for ability and understanding of a topic? They aren't for me. When I want to understand something, I create something which requires and demonstrates that understanding - this could be a Wikipedia article, a piece of software, or a lecture. Nothing of value is demonstrated by sitt…

I've never understood how someone could master a topic yet could not answer questions about it. I know from my own personal experience that when I bombed an exam, it's because I simply did not understand the material. When I did well on an exam, I had corresponding confidence that I understood it.

Memorizing a bunch of facts doesn’t demonstrate understanding of a topic.

Re: What the elite expect and receive from an Ivy League education

#203

Post by sid-kap »

NumberSix wrote: post #9

The article ends with: It’s a system that polishes privilege, its byproduct a contempt for earned authority. Many of the people who started with this attitude had it ratified and encouraged by perhaps the most prestigious university in the world — and now they’re running the whole show. Emphasis on now added. Who in their right mind thinks people who attend Harvard and a handful of other elite universities and prep s…

This reminds me of the fact that in the early republic, the majority of American presidents and powerful statesmen were Freemasons. There was even a anti-elitist party, called the Antimasonic party, formed to counter the Masons' influence in politics.

Re: What the elite expect and receive from an Ivy League education

#204

Post by onefromone »

thomasahle wrote: post #39
rdlecler1 wrote: post #16

I was a TA at Yale when I did my PhD there and I contrast that experience to when I was a TA at University of Calgary. Whether it’s a higher sense of entitlement or just grinding it out to maximize your official grade the contrast between these two schools was striking. At Yale you’d better think twice about honest grading because if you did there would be an army at your door with pitchforks ready. You then have to…

The problem is when the grades given on assignments influence what goes on your final exam papers. At a university, only the final exam should count. This way you can give honest feedback, and the student doesn't feel obligated to point out every little mistake to try to make you change your decision. It also allows them to misunderstand things at first, but then 'get' it later. Of course universities don't like this…

How does this solve the problem?

Do you honestly think students will not complain about the grade on a final exam and that the university will not continue to put pressure on students?

Not everyone performs the same way. Some students do badly under the pressure of testing, so having a variety of grades from a variety of types of assignments does help everyone do well.

Re: What the elite expect and receive from an Ivy League education

#205

Post by jameshart »

vilmosi wrote: post #201
jameshart wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eton and Westminster schools are not open to the 'middle class'. Of course, they'll accept the upper class, because that's traditional, but what they really want is the ruling class, which is no longer the same thing. But mere middle class?

"Middle class" in the UK is what you would consider "upper class".

I am British, so what I would consider upper class is... upper class. "Middle class" in the UK means the same as it does anywhere else - educated, property-owning, suburban, high discretionary spend budget... middle class.

Sure, there's plenty of people who will try to redefine it to mean people with substantial investment/property income who send their kids to private schools and own second homes abroad... in general to justify claiming that cuts to capital gains and inheritance tax are 'to help the middle class'. But that stockbroker-belt lifestyle is more specific to what you'd call the 'upper middle class'. And even stockbrokers aren't sending their kids to Eton...

Re: What the elite expect and receive from an Ivy League education

#206

Post by vilmosi »

jameshart wrote: post #205
vilmosi wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Middle class" in the UK is what you would consider "upper class".

I am British, so what I would consider upper class is... upper class. "Middle class" in the UK means the same as it does anywhere else - educated, property-owning, suburban, high discretionary spend budget... middle class. Sure, there's plenty of people who will try to redefine it to mean people with substantial investment/property income who send their kids to private schools and own second homes abroad... in genera…

Be that as it may, I don't want to argue semantics, but the grand-parent is obviously not using your definition of middle class. At least that's how I read it.

>>> A huge portion of the middle class in the UK went to Oxford or Cambridge.

Confusing, I know.

Post reply on HN