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How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

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Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#141

Post by spaceseaman »

IncRnd wrote: post #137
spaceseaman wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> complain that Senior Developers don't believe some Junior hires have minimum competency if they are unable to compile a file. You're definitely taking the wrong impression from my post then. Do you code in C / C++? If you've never had an issue compiling a large codebase as a new developer then I should either bow before your greatness or mock you for your inexperience because in large, complicated projects with 100…

You misunderstand. It is not that I have never had issues with compilation or linkage, but that a Junior Dev should be able to learn how to perform the compilation, learning the vagaries of the architecture and build system. You mention Enterprise development among other items. Making a shim or method for onboarding new devs is exactly a way for one to advance in Enterprise development. Therefore the Junior Dev shoul…

I get what you mean, but I was more referring to build issues that are strange or unusual. Something that even a senior dev would raise an eyebrow at.

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#142

Post by therealdrag0 »

lordnacho wrote: post #102

One thing about junior devs is the level of skill varies greatly. Where I work there's a guy who is nominally a junior dev, but he already knows everything the senior devs are expected to do. If he was an average guy there'd be a lot more handholding, but somehow with barely any hiring process (he was a friend of a friend) we lucked out. I'm wondering whether management will be smart and pay him like a senior dev so…

Yeah I've kinda been that guy. Went from university straight into a green field project that allowed me to grow very fast and I was smart and competent enough to handle it. I knew the project inside and out and everyone liked me. They billed me out at $250 and paid me $40. So I switched jobs after 1.5yrs for a 40% raise. Then the same thing happened, so after 1yr I got another job, also through a guy I had worked with who had seen I was good, for another 15% raise. It's funny how a company can get hung up on relative pay-raises instead of considering actual value added.

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#143

Post by IncRnd »

spaceseaman wrote: post #141
IncRnd wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand. It is not that I have never had issues with compilation or linkage, but that a Junior Dev should be able to learn how to perform the compilation, learning the vagaries of the architecture and build system. You mention Enterprise development among other items. Making a shim or method for onboarding new devs is exactly a way for one to advance in Enterprise development. Therefore the Junior Dev shoul…

I get what you mean, but I was more referring to build issues that are strange or unusual. Something that even a senior dev would raise an eyebrow at.

That makes sense.

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#145

Post by richardknop »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #7

Going from Jr to Sr in an organization is "easy/ier." Making the same progress as a freelancer/contractor is more difficult.

Most contractors are senior devs from my experience. One reason to go contracting is if you're a senior dev already and your career progression seems stuck because you're at the top of salaried positions in your company already. Going contracting is a way to get a pay rise for people like that.

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#146

Post by josh602 »

lc94 wrote: post #101

What they don't mention is the abysmal salary (£23,000~) they start you on. No idea why anyone would choose to work there.

I turned down a graduate contract in London for £30k, going up to £40k after two years, to be at the BBC. If you want to work at BBC D&E, you accept that you're not going to get a competitive salary. But in return, you get very relaxed and laid back working conditions. (Or so people tell me. I haven't worked at any other large software org to compare.)

Someone I know, who is now a principal dev, was previously a contractor for the BBC. He decided to leave contracting and join the corporation permanently. He's one of the most amazingly clever developers I have ever met.

(But yes, we'd all still appreciate it if we could be paid more.)

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#147

Post by josh602 »

isostatic wrote: post #121
nnain wrote: post #64

Kinda ironic that BBC Desing and Engineering team would publish their blog on Medium!

Yes, especially given there's a proper BBC blog system ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet ). I wonder if the poster had permission to post this, or if it's just a personal blog. Hopefully he won't get in too much trouble if the latter.

We're trying out Medium as a blogging platform because it was seeming like the BBC Internet Blog wasn't reaching our intended target audience any more. Better to go where your readers are than expect them to come to you.

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#148

Post by nvarsj »

richardknop wrote: post #145
rokhayakebe wrote: post #7

Going from Jr to Sr in an organization is "easy/ier." Making the same progress as a freelancer/contractor is more difficult.

Most contractors are senior devs from my experience. One reason to go contracting is if you're a senior dev already and your career progression seems stuck because you're at the top of salaried positions in your company already. Going contracting is a way to get a pay rise for people like that.

Going contracting in IT in London is a way to get a pay rise for anyone. A senior dev contractor will likely make more than a director or architect at the same company. The whole situation is wacky.

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#149

Post by skyisblue »

sdrothrock wrote: post #90

I work at a small Japanese company with only two developers; myself and a junior developer (also American) we brought on as my assistant a year ago. He came on with little to no development and technological experience but an incredible work/study ethic and a willingness to learn, which are both MUCH more important to me. The skills can be learned and refined over time, but the fundamentals need to be there; if a dev…

Currently have a junior dev on the team that asks way too many questions, most that can be easily googled. How do we push him in the right direction to become more independant.

Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC

#150

Post by striking »

skyisblue wrote: post #149
sdrothrock wrote: post #90

I work at a small Japanese company with only two developers; myself and a junior developer (also American) we brought on as my assistant a year ago. He came on with little to no development and technological experience but an incredible work/study ethic and a willingness to learn, which are both MUCH more important to me. The skills can be learned and refined over time, but the fundamentals need to be there; if a dev…

Currently have a junior dev on the team that asks way too many questions, most that can be easily googled. How do we push him in the right direction to become more independant.

One approach some people take is asking "how much time did you spend on this?", where if time is less than 15 minutes you can usually reject the question outright.
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