I was once a Jr Dev for the BBC too (back in the days). It was exactly as you described. Extremely beneficial in terms of personal development due to the culture it offered.
How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
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Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#62Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if they still use Perl? I think the BBC iPlayer used it.
I do remember they used Perl for backend, and there was a resident Perl-guru. I'm not sure with all the new Zend engine refactoring whether Perl still lives inside the BBC ...
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#63Ffs the guy is praising a "values" of a "company" that lives by streaking money from his fellow citizens.
Shameless
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#64Kinda ironic that BBC Desing and Engineering team would publish their blog on Medium!
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#65Lots of good stuff in this, but i have a couple of significant nits. First, paired programming is a great way to help a junior learn. But it’s dependent upon their desire, i do it frequently with one whose eyes glaze over when i explain what i’m doing and i know when they start surfing the web while i’m implementing. But otherwise paired programming is just a great way to slow me down. Secondly, the open floor plan t…
Another angle we take to help limit lost interest is the pilot (user on keyboard) doesn't write code without the co-pilot (person sitting near by) audibly directing the flow/logic of code. Good learning/teaching while on both sides.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#66> I worked in an all-senior team once. Nobody admitted not understanding something. Everyone wrote overly-complex code just to 1-up each other Sorry to hear about that experience. Those aren't senior developers. There's no room for learning when you think you know everything. Senior developers mentor, simplify, document, and admit when they don't know the answers.
> Senior developers mentor, simplify, document, and admit when they don't know the answers. Sadly this is far from my experience as well. It's likely a few toxic work environments. Not to hijack your comment but I would like to offer a specific example I've seen of toxic behavior from senior developers. Many don't actually read the questions you ask of them or trust your knowledge. It's very similar to attitudes I se…
Ha. I can relate.
At my last gig, it wasn't the seniors developers (well, it was some of them, too). It was the principal developer.
As my supervisor, he told me, a senior developer, I asked too many questions.
"A senior developer shouldn't need to ask questions."
My questions usually weren't even technical questions but rather questions meant to clarify business specs so that we could make better technical decisions.
At my last performance review, when he dinged me for lacking knowledge expected of me in my role (one of the boxes in the evaluation form), I pointed out I was the one who had done most the documentation for our major applications.
His response:
"A senior developer shouldn't need documentation. The knowledge should be in your head."
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#67> I worked in an all-senior team once. Nobody admitted not understanding something. Everyone wrote overly-complex code just to 1-up each other Sorry to hear about that experience. Those aren't senior developers. There's no room for learning when you think you know everything. Senior developers mentor, simplify, document, and admit when they don't know the answers.
> Those aren't senior developers
While I agree with you in spirit, in practice - in my experience at $BIGCORPs and $STARTUPs - this is very much standard operating procedure.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#68> I worked in an all-senior team once. Nobody admitted not understanding something. Everyone wrote overly-complex code just to 1-up each other Sorry to hear about that experience. Those aren't senior developers. There's no room for learning when you think you know everything. Senior developers mentor, simplify, document, and admit when they don't know the answers.
> Senior developers mentor, simplify, document, and admit when they don't know the answers. Sadly this is far from my experience as well. It's likely a few toxic work environments. Not to hijack your comment but I would like to offer a specific example I've seen of toxic behavior from senior developers. Many don't actually read the questions you ask of them or trust your knowledge. It's very similar to attitudes I se…
Maybe I read your post wrong, but your post seems to complain that Senior Developers don't believe some Junior hires have minimum competency if they are unable to compile a file.
That seems like something a Junior Dev should have mastered during their educational period.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Programmers having to beg glorified administrative assistants for permission to refactor code is why I’m inches from quitting this agile coaching bit to do a startup or something. I can teach people XP, Kanban, or scrum but I can’t teach them common sense.
If you want to start a startup so you can have clean code constantly refactored, you will join many others shocked that customers don’t care (not directly, and pretty much never at startup stage). In the mean time, someone else with the idea moves quicker and has all your customers. The end (literally). At a (much) later stage, there will be times to refactor. Carefully, and with limited scope that shows real value.
Thanks. Done plenty of startups. You misread my comment. I’m saying agile coaching is fruitless.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#70Lots of good stuff in this, but i have a couple of significant nits. First, paired programming is a great way to help a junior learn. But it’s dependent upon their desire, i do it frequently with one whose eyes glaze over when i explain what i’m doing and i know when they start surfing the web while i’m implementing. But otherwise paired programming is just a great way to slow me down. Secondly, the open floor plan t…
> Secondly, the open floor plan they described is a clear disregard for the productivity of individual software engineers. Maybe the author never experienced the difference, but it’s significant. Actually, I have. I've worked in two small digital agencies where the devs were in their own office. I didn't like it. It was too quiet for me and I felt like I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone. I concentrate better when I h…
For a great self-deprecating parody of BBC Values, and modern office culture generally, I highly recommend the BBC series, W1A. It should be available on Netflix.
Here's one of my favorite scenes, where Hugh Bonneville's character, the new Head of BBC Values, explores the BBC open floor plan for the first time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foG-O-_zbew&feature=youtu.be...
The new BBC headquarter's officeless workspaces are a running gag throughout the series. (Unfortunately, this video is evade-copyright-detection quality.)