This is an exciting read for me as I start as a Software Engineer at the BBC on Monday!
Awesome! London or Salford?
How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
41–50 of 166 posts
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well many parts of the BBC (tech wise) got outsourced/tuped circa 2003, saw lots of good people go and the whole of new media (web aspect) got decimated back then with cuts. I know this as I worked for the BBC at the time.
Tuped? I'm unfamiliar with the term, so I googled it and came up with TUPE. Is this correct: https://www.out-law.com/en/topics/employment/business-sales-...
Yep TUPE is what Zenst means.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#43Lots of good stuff in this, but i have a couple of significant nits. First, paired programming is a great way to help a junior learn. But it’s dependent upon their desire, i do it frequently with one whose eyes glaze over when i explain what i’m doing and i know when they start surfing the web while i’m implementing. But otherwise paired programming is just a great way to slow me down. Secondly, the open floor plan t…
> Secondly, the open floor plan they described is a clear disregard for the productivity of individual software engineers. Maybe the author never experienced the difference, but it’s significant.
Actually, I have. I've worked in two small digital agencies where the devs were in their own office. I didn't like it. It was too quiet for me and I felt like I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone. I concentrate better when I have background noise. Some of my colleagues have headphones, but I don't like to use them because I don't want to give the impression that I don't want anyone to interrupt me. I prefer people coming up to me to speak to me rather than sending me a message.
There's a very good historical reason why the BBC is committed to open plan offices and hot desking. Back in BBC Television Centre days (if I'm remembering correctly), it used to be that managers would have their own offices and the teams they line managed would be based in a completely different part of the building. Eventually, someone realised this is silly. There was a huge transformation of the corporation's culture, which brought about the existence of the BBC Values, and no one was allowed to have their own private office any more. Managers would sit with their teams, and people were able to just go up to other teams and chat with them, collaborate, etc.
It would go against the BBC Values if someone senior gave themselves a sense of greater self-importance just because they were a higher grade. No one should be told, 'You can't talk to me because your grade is too low'.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Curious why would one think agile is micromanaging?
Because its the common mistake large companies make when implementing agile. As a C-level you want to know the roadmap for the next 12 months and waterfall gave you that. Agile can be a bit terrifying (ofc it shouldnt be), therefore certain people (SAFE, looking at you) have worked out how to make agile look like waterfall from above. Basically by building tiers of process and making the demon-scrummaster (rather tha…
This isn't true in my experience. Each team I've come across has their own variant of Kanban that works for them that has evolved over time.
We have no scrum masters. We have a plurality of leadership in teams, comprising of a tech lead, one or more product managers, a project manager and maybe a senior UX designer. This works quite well for us. I've only been at the Beeb for a year, of course, but I wouldn't say I've generally felt micromanaged. In particular, the tech lead of my current team very clearly makes a conscious effort to ensure he takes a step back and allows the team to self-organise.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#45"I wanted to make sure that my first job post-university would be somewhere where I would feel happy and work not on my own, but with an agile team ..." It's interesting that any young developer would regard the micromanagement that comes with agile as a plus.
He worked at a waterfall digital agency. Literally anything is better than that. The description of working a digital agency matches mine exactly. Your given pictures and told to make it work as fast as possible. With no input into the actual experience.
> Literally anything is better than that.
Amen to that. :'(
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do they just mean agile in the sense of "adaptable and fast-moving"? Also, for some (many) junior anything s some micromanagement is a good thing, especially for a college grad with little "real world" experience.
BBC levels of management are good for no one other than the management.
Could you expand on that?
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#47> I worked in an all-senior team once. Nobody admitted not understanding something. Everyone wrote overly-complex code just to 1-up each other Sorry to hear about that experience. Those aren't senior developers. There's no room for learning when you think you know everything. Senior developers mentor, simplify, document, and admit when they don't know the answers.
> Senior developers mentor, simplify, document, and admit when they don't know the answers. Sadly this is far from my experience as well. It's likely a few toxic work environments. Not to hijack your comment but I would like to offer a specific example I've seen of toxic behavior from senior developers. Many don't actually read the questions you ask of them or trust your knowledge. It's very similar to attitudes I se…
>Many don't actually read the questions you ask of them or trust your knowledge
I think the issue could be that you're using written communication. It can be a difficult way to get help. Can you sit down and talk with these seniors?
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
BBC levels of management are good for no one other than the management.
Could you expand on that?
I could, but W1A, a BBC sitcom does a much better job. Beyond that, we’re talking about criminally overpaid management which until relatively recently spent a few decades covering for the likes of Jimmy Saville. It’s the same management which still can’t quite figure how to deal with the realities of content delivery in 2017, because it might mean real change.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#49"I wanted to make sure that my first job post-university would be somewhere where I would feel happy and work not on my own, but with an agile team ..." It's interesting that any young developer would regard the micromanagement that comes with agile as a plus.
> micromanagement that comes with agile It's a sad day when the ideas behind the agile movement have fully become the Agile System (tm) in engineer consciousness. The word used to denote a style of working, not characterised by micromanagement or by a Scrum Master (tm, again) telling people what to do, but ironically by leaving behind dogma for a loose collection of principles that worked effectively for the team and…
Agile coach here.
There are people who suck at managing software development and people who suck less. Whether they call it agile or use some system or other has zero correlation with how toxic or effective they are.
This is heresy amongst my peers but I love to gaslight them by saying: there were plenty of high performing waterfall teams before anyone ever uttered agile.
Re: How We Grow Junior Developers at the BBC
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
> micromanagement that comes with agile It's a sad day when the ideas behind the agile movement have fully become the Agile System (tm) in engineer consciousness. The word used to denote a style of working, not characterised by micromanagement or by a Scrum Master (tm, again) telling people what to do, but ironically by leaving behind dogma for a loose collection of principles that worked effectively for the team and…
Curious why would one think agile is micromanaging?
SAFe destroyed the great progress many of my clients were making towards more nimble, more human, software development.
Dean Leffingwell is a charlatan and a snake oil salesman.