So there are somethings I don’t quite understand about the pro-diversity argument. My understanding of the claim is that companies should want to have a diverse workforce because people of different backgrounds are fundamentally different. Different to the point that without inclusion of all their viewpoints you will fail to optimally solve some problems. It makes sense that if you don’t have enough women in tech your company, may fail to notice opportunities that cater specifically to women.
Still, if women, men and people of different ethnicities and races all have such fundamentally different backgrounds, why would you expect them all to choose the same fields in the same proportion? Furthermore, is proportional representation necessary to achieve optimal gains from having diverse viewpoints?
Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
21–30 of 122 posts
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#22It's sad to see men regressing at the idea of diversity in tech. It can't just be a boys club. The value in employment diversity is that we give people of all backgrounds a fair shot at opportunities. IMO it's actually a very complex issue strategically leveling the playing field. At Google, something like only 1 in 5 tech workers are female, and their diversity practices are fairly extreme compared to the norm. It's…
[deleted]
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is 'regressing' at the idea of diversity in tech. Framing it that way is a huge part of the problem and phenomenally disingenuous and simplistic. The divide is really whether you want force extra diversity at the expense of a meritocracy or if you want a meritocracy. With all the 'more women' vs. 'boys club' nonsense, a person not thinking critically could forget that some people want to work with the best peo…
No meritocracy exists in tech at any level and claims to the contrary so strangely come predicated on a level of social and cultural privilege that, for some shocking reason, those without that very seriously considered and measured (stop laughing) merit so often seem to lack.
It exists... it's just rare. I've seen it work first hand in most of my career at trading firms of all sizes.
Though, after leaving the field from extreme burnout (definitely something to be said there), I haven't seen anything that even remotely matches the meritocratic systems in the finance world. It's kinda bittersweet.
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#24Today on HN I've learnt about KaTeX, a math typesetting system for the web[1]. As I looked into it, I was intrigued by the names of the two authors, which suggested they are females. That looked odd to me, as I thought typically this kind of project is made by men.
The last time I had this kind of surprise was with Audrey Tang, the developer of Pugs, an early Perl 6 implementation. Turned out she was not born female.
So, just by curiosity, I looked into the authors of this KaTeX thing. To my amusement, I guessed well : at least one of them is a trans[2].
There are certain kinds of IT projects in which women are formidably rare. I can't quite put my finger on what kind of projects I'm talking about, but let's just say it's a case of "I know it when I see it".
At some point we should consider admitting that there is something, I don't know what, that draws men towards this kind of projects much more than for women. And that this thing, whatever it is, may be a reason for the observed gender disparities in the tech industry.
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#25Hard to take Damore seriously given he's been making a fool of himself on Twitter since getting fired. He's clearly not that bright of a guy. Most likely explanation? He feels threatened by actually-competent lady engineers.
> Most likely explanation? He feels threatened by actually-competent lady engineers.
Damore basically said that he thinks that women will never dominate tech no matter how much we try so I doubt that he is afraid of competent lady engineers taking his job. Instead I think he is afraid of losing his current work environment due to diversity programs trying to change it to fit women better. Currently tech caters mostly to men since it is mostly men who work there and not everyone will be happy when we try to change that.
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#26The thing that sucks about this is that there is a spectrum of opinions on this issue, but we choose to categorize people as either progressive or prejudice.
I think the whole "men's rights" movement is bullshit. But last week I was in a meeting and recruiting was giving an update. At the end, our VP said "I don't want to waste our time interviewing anyone who isn't a diversity hire." This is illegal. This is 100% illegal.
The moment you say "hey, maybe we're doing something wrong with diversity hiring" you're suddenly sexist and racist. That's bullshit. We have headcount to fill and I don't give a fuck who you are. That's equality.
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and have equal rights I'm sorry, what human rights are women lacking now? EDIT: I should clarify, in western democracies and developed eastern countries
Women in the United States do not have a universal right to health care. Even ignoring affordability, many localities have made it effectively impossible to obtain health care services that are related to reproductive health care. If these services were a right (even at the level of "you have a right to purchase these if you can afford them") that practice would be illegal and perhaps even unconstitutional. And this…
A vasectomy should not be compared directly to an abortion. It should be compared to tubal ligation.
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and have equal rights I'm sorry, what human rights are women lacking now? EDIT: I should clarify, in western democracies and developed eastern countries
Women in the United States do not have a universal right to health care. Even ignoring affordability, many localities have made it effectively impossible to obtain health care services that are related to reproductive health care. If these services were a right (even at the level of "you have a right to purchase these if you can afford them") that practice would be illegal and perhaps even unconstitutional. And this…
>Women in the United States do not have a universal right to health care
wait, what?
>many localities have made it effectively impossible to obtain health care services that are related to reproductive health care.
oh. so by framing access to birth control/abortion as "health care", it's now a "health care" issue. that's a interesting way of grabbing attention.
>We could also point to evidence that there is a practical lack of rights to fair trials in sexual assault cases
are you talking about the men or the women in this case?
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#29It's sad to see men regressing at the idea of diversity in tech. It can't just be a boys club. The value in employment diversity is that we give people of all backgrounds a fair shot at opportunities. IMO it's actually a very complex issue strategically leveling the playing field. At Google, something like only 1 in 5 tech workers are female, and their diversity practices are fairly extreme compared to the norm. It's…
No one is 'regressing' at the idea of diversity in tech. Framing it that way is a huge part of the problem and phenomenally disingenuous and simplistic. The divide is really whether you want force extra diversity at the expense of a meritocracy or if you want a meritocracy. With all the 'more women' vs. 'boys club' nonsense, a person not thinking critically could forget that some people want to work with the best peo…
By definition, you can't have a meritocracy without having diversity. In a meritocracy, someone needs to determine the "merit", or at least define the rules which will determine it. And as long as that someone is human, the merit will be affected by their thoughts, emotions, beliefs and understanding of the world, which are in turn determined (or at the very least affected) by the world around them.
Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far
#30Can we get a reasoning behind this flag?