Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership • Hacker News Board

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#121

Post by uptownfunk » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 8:32 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #75

uptownfunk wrote: post #33

Wish I had joined a frat in Uni.. What no one told me in Uni is that: + You're either tech or not tech, and not tech is not sexy in the valley + You need experience, no one cares about all the extra coursework you do, experience is king + Don't wear a suit to an interview in the valley, ever. + Your connections are invaluable, form lasting relationships, it's one of those weird things where not studying pays off, a l…

I'm a recruiter who doesn't work with any companies in the Valley, and I'm curious about this: > Don't wear a suit to an interview > in the valley, ever. Really? Almost everywhere else in the world, not wearing a suit to an interview is a weak negative signal, as it shows you're unlikely to be able to put up with even small amounts of the inherent corporate bullshit that occurs in companies. Even if you'll never wear…

It's a cultural fit, most SV companies don't do suits, it's just not part of the culture. So if you go and interview with a company, and no one's wearing suits, it makes it look like you're not going to fit in if you are wearing one. It's almost seen as over compensating for lack of technical skills or knowledge by wearing a suit, at least that was my impression.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#122

Post by WikipediasBad » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 8:32 AM UTC

santaclaus wrote: post #83

fny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can guarantee no one really cares about your GPA, especially after your first job. If it's your only proof of competency/intelligence that's been validated by a third-party, they'll care, but if you have other outside evidence and interview well, no one will ever even think to ask, even in elite settings. I, for one, have never put my GPA on my resume.

> I can guarantee no one really cares about your GPA When a buddy of mine was interviewing at hedge funds, a few of them didn't just want his undergrad GPA, but also his high school SAT scores. He actually got shit from one of the interviewers because his French SAT scores were shady... the dude had a few years of finance experience and a PhD in theoretical physics. YMMV.

These are "generalized careers" so they have to grasp at arbitrary cues that vouch for intelligence and competence. Careers that require specialized tasks don't look at generalized grade averages or test scores of non-relevant backgrounds like "French SAT" for a "hedge fund" job.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#123

Post by watwut » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 9:56 AM UTC

notadoc wrote: post #7

Not surprising. Fraternities engage in many nonacademic activities which could lead to a lower GPA, but they also come with a very large social network and series of connections which help members find jobs and further career options.

But, it is supposed to be meritocracy. \snark

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#124

Post by MagnumOpus » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 12:12 PM UTC

defen wrote: post #51

baron816 wrote: post #29

Dear Silicon Valley, Please start something (company or otherwise) that will make it easy for adults (young and old) to become part of a large, real world social network. One which will help them form good career connections, as well as platonic and romantic relationships. Fraternities create their own unique culture (traditions, handshakes, songs, idioms, etc) to tie people together, so keep that in mind. Please lea…

Who wants to join a group that will let anybody in? It's a very basic aspect of human psychology that shared sacrifice (real or perceived) leads to stronger social bonds.

Who wants to join a group that will let anybody in? The majority of the human species that participates in organised religious groups that let anybody in who can recite a credo or a shahada... (Of course there is still sacrifice - they all have arbitrary rules and constraints to lead to shared hardship and to create the essential us-vs-them.)

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#125

Post by bkohlmann » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 2:00 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #67

bkohlmann wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining a fraternity was one of the most meaningful and impactful experiences of my life. I come from humble means - my parents couldnt and didnt pay for any of the (expensive) school I ended up attending. I ended up joining one of only two "wet" fraternities on campus (meaning we were allowed to have booze in our house), and the one considered the most social. I was (am) an introvert and didn't drink in high school…

By joining a fraternity despite being from humble means I'm almost certain you're someone who would have sought social connections even without. And you'd likely end up into an academic or an athletic or an interest based group where you'd build similar connections. The difference would be that the arbiters of who joined your club would base their decisions on your skills/interests/passions as opposed to your drinkin…

Perhaps, although in my particular case, I joined because I applied for a scholarship the house sponsored - and it was the only house I rushed. I spent most of my time holed up in my room the first quarter except for rush events I was explicitly invited to. And that chosen preference for isolation continued in the house as well. But simply being there forced me / gave me the opportunity to walk downstairs and be immersed in a sea of fascinating people. It really was the thing that taught me how to build relationships across differences.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#126

Post by bkohlmann » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 2:07 PM UTC

danjoc wrote: post #106

bkohlmann wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining a fraternity was one of the most meaningful and impactful experiences of my life. I come from humble means - my parents couldnt and didnt pay for any of the (expensive) school I ended up attending. I ended up joining one of only two "wet" fraternities on campus (meaning we were allowed to have booze in our house), and the one considered the most social. I was (am) an introvert and didn't drink in high school…

>Not once did wealth, influence or ability to pay impact our recruitment decisions Yet, I don't imagine you would want to trade places with any of the guys you blackballed from your friendly club. Having been a navy fighter pilot, are you really going to try to tell me, with a straight face, about how hard it was to pay for school or fit in?

Despite the stereotypes around my first chosen profession, I always felt like an outsider within it, even though I loved it. I've always been a bit of an odd duck. And any organization - even the school I attended! - makes choices about who can and cannot attend. I'm happy to share my resume of failures if you'd like to know all the places I've been "blackballed" from!

I was fortunate to have an ROTC scholarship (open to most Americans who qualify) which paid for tuition, but I paid it back in spades with the 10 years I subsequently gave in service. Perhaps that's unwarranted privilege - only you can interpret that.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#127

Post by OvidNaso » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 4:33 PM UTC

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #39

baron816 wrote: post #29

Dear Silicon Valley, Please start something (company or otherwise) that will make it easy for adults (young and old) to become part of a large, real world social network. One which will help them form good career connections, as well as platonic and romantic relationships. Fraternities create their own unique culture (traditions, handshakes, songs, idioms, etc) to tie people together, so keep that in mind. Please lea…

Making it easy defeats the entire point of something like a fraternity: excluding the less valuable and less committed people from the social space so that the high-value and committed people that remain can efficiently use their time. Now, of course, the fraternities can't say that that's why they're exclusive, but yeah, they're exclusive for a reason.

Why can't they say that? Because that sounds exactly like what their parent organization (the university), does every year. This thread seems to be really down on the exclusivity part, but I feel I'm taking crazy pills, because this is happening at universities!! All of pledges just went through a very judgemental, exclusive selection of elites...and they one that round. A further selection process is now abhorrent?

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#128

Post by ThrustVectoring » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

OvidNaso wrote: post #127

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making it easy defeats the entire point of something like a fraternity: excluding the less valuable and less committed people from the social space so that the high-value and committed people that remain can efficiently use their time. Now, of course, the fraternities can't say that that's why they're exclusive, but yeah, they're exclusive for a reason.

Why can't they say that? Because that sounds exactly like what their parent organization (the university), does every year. This thread seems to be really down on the exclusivity part, but I feel I'm taking crazy pills, because this is happening at universities!! All of pledges just went through a very judgemental, exclusive selection of elites...and they one that round. A further selection process is now abhorrent?

I used "can't" to indicate that playing up that aspect of things is really bad PR. In America, everyone is special and elitism is terrible.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#129

Post by danjoc » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

bkohlmann wrote: post #126

danjoc wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not once did wealth, influence or ability to pay impact our recruitment decisions Yet, I don't imagine you would want to trade places with any of the guys you blackballed from your friendly club. Having been a navy fighter pilot, are you really going to try to tell me, with a straight face, about how hard it was to pay for school or fit in?

Despite the stereotypes around my first chosen profession, I always felt like an outsider within it, even though I loved it. I've always been a bit of an odd duck. And any organization - even the school I attended! - makes choices about who can and cannot attend. I'm happy to share my resume of failures if you'd like to know all the places I've been "blackballed" from! I was fortunate to have an ROTC scholarship (ope…

>Perhaps that's unwarranted privilege - only you can interpret that.

No, I'm happy for you and glad you had the opportunity. It's just you started your anecdote about humble beginnings, and yet you had a full ride in college. You might not see yourself as a rich kid, but leaving college without crushing debt is something only a privileged few can do these days.

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/class-of-2015-has-the-m...

It sounds like, similar to many popular people I've known, you have impostor syndrome. Despite all evidence to the contrary, you swear up and down that you're a square peg and an outsider. And you really believe it. You're not doing it for sympathy. I can clearly detect that from you.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#130

Post by subjectsigma » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:28 PM UTC

cowpig wrote: post #118

forgotpw2017 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped reading half way through because your shitpost twists everything said into a life of privilege and deceit. My dad was a mechanic. His dad worked in a steel mill. His dad worked in a steel mill. His dad escaped the horrors of WW1 in a country we'll never know. Go ahead and twist everything I say until it either refutes me or supports whatever agenda you want. You can talk general shit about fraternities but…

Wasn't trying to twist anything. Just letting you see how your post looks to someone not in your in-group. It's crazy to me that your worldview is so deeply embedded with tribalism that you think your dad being a mechanic or your friend being black have anything to do with who you are. The point about minorities is just that: by arguing that you're not racist because minorities are in your tribe, you're showing that…

Your post is incredibly disingenuous.

>It's crazy to me that your worldview is so deeply embedded with tribalism

And yours isn't? You just assumed this person is a "meathead rich retard" and a "fundamentally bad person" who "did harm to everyone around" because he's in a fraternity? Talk about unfair stereotyping.

>Wasn't trying to twist anything. Just letting you see how your post looks to someone not in your in-group.

You are trying to twist things. If you're going to be aggressively "anti-privelege" the least you could do is drop the smug moralizing and admit that you're pushing an agenda here based off of your own personal worldview.