Bitcoin is fiat money, too • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#261

Post by dzhiurgis » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:14 AM UTC

sonink wrote: post #190

Fundamentally, Bitcoin is software eating the Fed-Bank-Retail ecosystem. The Fed governance is replaced by code. The banking utility is replaced by miners. I think the march of bitcoin is actually a better example of how AI is taking over the world. People in AI are fascinated by AGI - but the bitcoin ecosystem is actually a real world example of how AI will take over the world. Specifically, the march of AI won't ha…

> But there are countries in Africa who can already do better by simply leapfrogging to bitcoin and ditching their national currencies.

They already leapfrogged them a decade ago with m-pesa.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#262

Post by meric » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:17 AM UTC

smallnamespace wrote: post #251

meric wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make a positive return in terms of hard disk space. Refrain from swapping USD for hard disk space, and you can get more hard disk space in the future. This applies to all sorts of goods, like TV's, music players, etc. The value of USD is increasing against these goods, yet people still make the trade of USD for goods. I suppose if we increase the inflation of USD such that the price of hard disk space increas…

If you believe that we should have UBI (and it seems like many here do), deflation is the exact opposite of it -- it slowly concentrates wealth with those who already have it, and all they have to do is hold the currency. Whereas inflation at least basically forces the wealthy to invest in real assets or else slowly transfer the value of the cash towards debtors.

Currency isn't wealth - wealth is real estate, stock, furniture, computers. Deflation makes it easier for wage earner savers to increase their tangible wealth. The economic data matches this - economy was a lot more equal on the gold standard until 1971, and have become a lot less equal once a policy of inflation is implemented. Are we going to act on theories that match the data or does not match the data? With deflation, UBI income will increase in value over time, the deflation occurring from technological change accruing to UBI receivers.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#263

Post by mseebach » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:22 AM UTC

Terr_ wrote: post #259

mseebach wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just download a mining program and run it on your computer. Voilà, you now have "a say" that is exactly equivalent to your say in the policy of republican institutions.

Don't be silly, that's like saying that incorporating a one-person business automatically puts you on-par with the lobbying power of major industries.

No, it's as silly as suggesting that a single voter has any say what so ever in the policies of republican institutions.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#264

Post by Sidious » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:35 AM UTC

Let me say this, because I think it needs to be said.

All people should worry about is making sure that the blockchain does not get perverted by the ilk of those who own and support a perpetuating publication like the economist.

For anyone who has been around for a while knows that central banks are privately held entities and their mechanism furthers an agenda by means of war and corruption.

If the blockchain can end the peoples' suffering, let's.

/s

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#265

Post by radarsat1 » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:47 AM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #263

Terr_ wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be silly, that's like saying that incorporating a one-person business automatically puts you on-par with the lobbying power of major industries.

No, it's as silly as suggesting that a single voter has any say what so ever in the policies of republican institutions.

1 vote for a poor person = 1 vote for a rich person (ideally). In mining, the more mining power you have, the more "say" you have. One stays constant, the other scales. Don't you think that is an important distinction?

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#266

Post by spdionis » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:51 AM UTC

radarsat1 wrote: post #265

mseebach wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's as silly as suggesting that a single voter has any say what so ever in the policies of republican institutions.

1 vote for a poor person = 1 vote for a rich person (ideally). In mining, the more mining power you have, the more "say" you have. One stays constant, the other scales. Don't you think that is an important distinction?

In a way it's a pretty naive view. The rich person will have more influence over other people that will give him effectively more than 1 vote.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#267

Post by mirimir » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 10:59 AM UTC

radarsat1 wrote: post #265

mseebach wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's as silly as suggesting that a single voter has any say what so ever in the policies of republican institutions.

1 vote for a poor person = 1 vote for a rich person (ideally). In mining, the more mining power you have, the more "say" you have. One stays constant, the other scales. Don't you think that is an important distinction?

Sure, each has one vote.

But it's not your one vote that makes any difference, It's how many votes you can influence. And that's all about privilege and money. Campaign funding. Lobbying.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#268

Post by mirimir » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 11:01 AM UTC

musage wrote: post #253

AlexCoventry wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really think you have a say in monetary policy, I suggest you read Barofsky's Bailout .

You have a say in it in principle. In contrast, you have in principle no say what others do with their private property. That's the difference, and it's an important one.

You can't control what miners do, sure. But you can fork code that changes the game for them.

Contrary to all the noise, Bitcoin does not need commercial miners. They are parasites. Allowing them to dominate mining was a serious bug. It's users who should be mining.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#269

Post by b1daly » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 11:23 AM UTC

sonink wrote: post #190

Fundamentally, Bitcoin is software eating the Fed-Bank-Retail ecosystem. The Fed governance is replaced by code. The banking utility is replaced by miners. I think the march of bitcoin is actually a better example of how AI is taking over the world. People in AI are fascinated by AGI - but the bitcoin ecosystem is actually a real world example of how AI will take over the world. Specifically, the march of AI won't ha…

Bitcoin can easily be stopped by governments, at least in countries that are not failed states. All they have to do is declare it illegal, and enforce the law.

It would be trivial for them to shut down exchanges. Without that, it would hard, and expensive, to convert to fiat.

Legit businesses would not accept Bitcoin. The only uses would be black market, and I doubt they would continue using bitcoin on the darknet markets. Without the ability to easily convert to the currency of the country you live in, Bitcoin would have little to no value.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#270

Post by simo7 » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 11:28 AM UTC

Bitcoin is fiat money with (almost) constant supply.

This is the real problem, not it being fiat money. This is what makes it a terrible currency for trade and a great one for speculation!