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Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

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Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#31

Post by ballenf »

goatsi wrote: post #4

I'm not sure what the author wants bitcoin to be. They are correct in pointing out the various scams that litter bitcoin, but they also seem to want to shut out crime (silkroad et al) with better analysis tools and centralization. Without the various scams pumping the price criminals are the only ones who would be using bitcoin, as they are locked out of the much simpler & easier to use alternatives that any normal p…

While he may be correct, he's trying to shove bitcoin into one a few predefined ideas about what a currency needs to be.

And most, if not all, of his complaints revolve around bitcoin's design of being untethered from judicial systems or purview. No one has figured out, even theoretically, how to have our cake and eat it too. It seems pretty clear that his wish is a fundamental contradiction and one must choose between the two.

The 'bad' actors he talked about can all be investigated in the same way a bank heist or computer hack can be, and if successful, the perpetraters punished (as have some of them).

It's like saying 'people who use dollars aren't going to tell you how the Federal Reserve invents millions or billions of dollars of currency out of thin air every year.' No, they won't, but as of now we consider that a feature not a bug (not all do, but most mainstream do). Even though it means the dollar you 'buy' today will be worth slightly less tomorrow.

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#32

Post by woogiewonka »

mahyarm wrote: post #21
patryn20 wrote: post #5

There is still no legitimate use of bitcoin beyond niche markets and speculation. Besides maybe a very risky (as in unpredictable value on delivery) method of money transfer. It is and has always been a criminal and launderer toy. I am very excited by progress in Ethereum and see it as a model for a better way forward. Though I do not trust its maintainers and community to build a secure and reliable system. There ha…

It's also useful for cheaper & faster cross border remittances for the common person. For the common person paypal's %3+ currency exchange fees is more expensive than the equivalent %0.5-%1 in fees you get from a 2 bitcoin exchanges. And it's far faster since everything moves at the speed of local deposits & withdraws.

Transferwise is pretty friendly and uses real exchange rate + reasonable fees Usually around 1% or less. With Bitcoin, I can send the same transfer for 0.03% - which puts Transferwise to shame and makes PayPal look like an absurd joke. Granted there's much more involved with current volatility of bitcoin but once that gets more stable all of the other options will be a total joke. People who cant't understand the future of bitcoin as remittence are in for a rude awakening.

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#33

Post by patryn20 »

earlz wrote: post #29
patryn20 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The smart contract model makes it useful beyond just "purchasing things" (as the unimaginative would say. Yes that's a dig at you senatorobama). The EVM (despite it's implementation flaws) makes it's uses practically limitless. Bitcoin...is an impractical, user-unfriendly first mover. Ethereum is the flawed second mover (ok, I'm discounting all the silly coins in between). I'm honestly not sure who the ultimate winne…

I'm involved, in this space and agree. Though to play devil's advocate, smart contracts (especially since Ethereum is soon adding zk-snarks) also allow for more sophisticated ways to commit crimes. But yes, I definitely think that smart contracts are the next move forward for this space. Dumb money transfer is a really awesome thing, but it's also quite small. Bitcoin does have some smart contract-ish functionality,…

As I said, Ethereum is fundamentally flawed. And the implementation was...naive. It is a giant liability to all those who use it.

I'm very excited for the space. Just not for the current currencies.

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#34

Post by mrb »

«Bitfinex has provided no details about how it was hacked, who hacked it, or to where those funds were drained to.»

Actually, Zane Tackett, Director of Community & Product Development at Bitfinex, has provided information, including the complete list of Bitcoin addresses where the stolen funds went: http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitfinex-hack-2016/

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#35

Post by johndevor »

tradersam wrote: post #10
TheLilHipster wrote: post #3

Most cryptos are definitely pump and dump ponzis designed to eat your money, there is definitely a technocracy-like barrier for entry if you want to join the crypto bandwagon. Focus your time and energy on BTC, ETH and an anonymous coin like XMR. Any other offering should be met with skepticism.

I would add LTC to your list, but besides that I don't know why you're being downvoted.

What's the main argument for ltc?

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#36

Post by patryn20 »

wslh wrote: post #27
patryn20 wrote: post #5

There is still no legitimate use of bitcoin beyond niche markets and speculation. Besides maybe a very risky (as in unpredictable value on delivery) method of money transfer. It is and has always been a criminal and launderer toy. I am very excited by progress in Ethereum and see it as a model for a better way forward. Though I do not trust its maintainers and community to build a secure and reliable system. There ha…

> There is still no legitimate use of bitcoin beyond niche markets and speculation You are making me laugh about your ignorance, sorry for my pedantry but... if my company in Argentina receives an international wire transfer from a customer in my HSBC account, it will be less money than if I receive the Bitcoins and exchange it via https://bitex.la/ , and deposit it to the same HSBC account. Both process follow all t…

> Besides maybe a very risky (as in unpredictable value on delivery) method of money transfer.

Cherry picking is fun.

Did you transfer money last week? If it had been bitcoin and had been at the wrong time, you would have received less than you asked for.

Bitcoin is a speculative security like product, not currency.

The power of the bank transfer is that you can predict what you will receive.

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#37

Post by patryn20 »

senatorobama wrote: post #19
patryn20 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth isn't dulled by repetition. It's up to crypto enthusiasts to come up with a use case.

Yeah, like buying things.

Bitcoin is basically useless for buying legal things. And especially useless for high dollar transactions without escrow agreements, since the value can fluctuate rapidly before transactions settle and can be liquidated to fiat (funny how moving it to fiat always seems to matter to people selling physical items.).

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#38

Post by lojack »

johndevor wrote: post #35
tradersam wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add LTC to your list, but besides that I don't know why you're being downvoted.

What's the main argument for ltc?

More decentralization because you don't essentially need a special purpose FPGA (or whatever is popular these days) specifically meant for mining coins, as these special purpose machines are typically more centralized in larger farms.

I'm not familiar enough with LTC to say if this will continue for the future, but thats the standard argument in favor.

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#39

Post by patryn20 »

woogiewonka wrote: post #32
mahyarm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also useful for cheaper & faster cross border remittances for the common person. For the common person paypal's %3+ currency exchange fees is more expensive than the equivalent %0.5-%1 in fees you get from a 2 bitcoin exchanges. And it's far faster since everything moves at the speed of local deposits & withdraws.

Transferwise is pretty friendly and uses real exchange rate + reasonable fees Usually around 1% or less. With Bitcoin, I can send the same transfer for 0.03% - which puts Transferwise to shame and makes PayPal look like an absurd joke. Granted there's much more involved with current volatility of bitcoin but once that gets more stable all of the other options will be a total joke. People who cant't understand the fut…

This is based on the assumption that bitcoin will stabilize.

I think bitcoin is a flawed first mover. The winner (and future stable cryptocurrency) likely hasn't been invented yet.

But I imagine it's mathematic properties will allows for a sustainable transaction rate (i.e.: thousands per second), short (as in sub 2-3 second) final confirmation times, and the ability to execute Ethereum like smart contracts without major security flaws and naive language implementation choices.

Re: Things cryptocurrency enthusiasts probably won't tell you

#40

Post by omarchowdhury »

AgentME wrote: post #30
TheLilHipster wrote: post #3

Most cryptos are definitely pump and dump ponzis designed to eat your money, there is definitely a technocracy-like barrier for entry if you want to join the crypto bandwagon. Focus your time and energy on BTC, ETH and an anonymous coin like XMR. Any other offering should be met with skepticism.

>Focus your time and energy on BTC, ETH and an anonymous coin like XMR. Any other offering should be met with skepticism. To elaborate/explain on this point for those less familiar: those three cryptocurrencies actually are based on real technical innovation, and have developer communities producing more technical innovation. There are many other cryptocurrencies that have zero technical innovation (or completely non…

Technical innovation is not the only type of innovation happening in the crypto space. There are tokens being developed whose innovations are financial, social, political, and economic. Don't assume technical innovation is the end all be all, Ethereum's technical innovation allows for the other types of innovation to occur, for example.

To strengthen my argument, you wouldn't expect every startup on the Internet to develop their own Apache server, HTTP protocol, and all the other technical innovations that allow for their business to exist, would you?

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