Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership • Hacker News Board

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#111

Post by gbacon » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 2:08 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #79

bkohlmann wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining a fraternity was one of the most meaningful and impactful experiences of my life. I come from humble means - my parents couldnt and didnt pay for any of the (expensive) school I ended up attending. I ended up joining one of only two "wet" fraternities on campus (meaning we were allowed to have booze in our house), and the one considered the most social. I was (am) an introvert and didn't drink in high school…

[deleted]

Philanthropic fund raisers. Supporting university life and other on-campus events. Risk reduction at parties. Being dependable and loyal. Learning to navigate and manage a small business by managing chapter affairs. Learning to separate the talkers from the doers. Being there for your buddies through deaths, divorces, cancer, and other hard times. Positive peer pressure to make the chapter look good.

No, these positives aren't unique to Greek life, and yes, there are shenanigans too, sometimes worse. Sorry to hear about your negative experience. I hope it was only a vocal minority who were acting so terribly.

To the suggestion in the title of this post, there's more to a product than the technology, and I say that as a technical person. Education is important, but most of it takes place outside the classroom. None of us does it alone.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#112

Post by gbacon » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 2:14 AM UTC

sgustard wrote: post #89

BoorishBears wrote: post #3

Unless you're already about to fail, few, if any, employers will care about your GPA, and joining a large network of college graduates who share camaraderie can't hurt when it comes to finding well paying positions and moving up in organizations

If you don't care about GPA, why do you need me to be a college graduate? I'm genuinely confused about the point of college. I can spend four years drinking and partying without going into debt if that's what I need to get a job.

A college degree is a legally and socially acceptable form of an intelligence test.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#113

Post by gbacon » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 2:16 AM UTC

vostok wrote: post #84

champagnepapi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Certain institutions will not even consider a candidate who has not gone to a top tier University AND graduated with 3.5 or greater, unless of course they have some sort of connection with someone working at that institution. For first job out of college

I've seen certain institutions want "elite" job experience, degree from top school, high GPA, and sometimes high test scores. This is not for the first job.

Sounds exclusive, almost like a fraternity.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#114

Post by vostok » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 2:33 AM UTC

gbacon wrote: post #113

vostok wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen certain institutions want "elite" job experience, degree from top school, high GPA, and sometimes high test scores. This is not for the first job.

Sounds exclusive, almost like a fraternity.

There are definitely parallels. A fair amount of people in these industries were in fraternities, secret societies, or similar student organizations.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#115

Post by mitchellst » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

baron816 wrote: post #29

Dear Silicon Valley, Please start something (company or otherwise) that will make it easy for adults (young and old) to become part of a large, real world social network. One which will help them form good career connections, as well as platonic and romantic relationships. Fraternities create their own unique culture (traditions, handshakes, songs, idioms, etc) to tie people together, so keep that in mind. Please lea…

So many replies to this comment, and none have yet acknowledged the high probability that Baron's request is sarcastic.

When frat guys with names like "Baron" claim they have superior social awareness, this is what they mean.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#116

Post by userbinator » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 3:09 AM UTC

danielam wrote: post #108

peteretep wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a recruiter who doesn't work with any companies in the Valley, and I'm curious about this: > Don't wear a suit to an interview > in the valley, ever. Really? Almost everywhere else in the world, not wearing a suit to an interview is a weak negative signal, as it shows you're unlikely to be able to put up with even small amounts of the inherent corporate bullshit that occurs in companies. Even if you'll never wear…

I think this is generally the case for tech companies in the United States and for startups around the world. Personally, I can't name a single tech company where interviewees are expected to wear suits to interviews. If there are any such bona fide tech companies (versus companies with tech teams), I imagine they're older corporations.

IBM.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#117

Post by forgotpw2017 » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 3:17 AM UTC

cowpig wrote: post #87

forgotpw2017 wrote: post #37

Not surprised. I was in a fraternity, and no we didn't haze at all. Between all the events (of which less than a third are parties) and dedication it takes to keep the thing from barreling into the ground you learn a lot of real life skills. First, there's selection bias. We would only take guys that were really sociable, somewhat hard working, competitive, and with decent grades. Most fraternities were the same. "Fr…

Not surprised. I was in a fraternity, and no we didn't haze at all. Between all the events (of which less than a third are parties) and dedication it takes to keep the thing from barreling into the ground you learn some basic lifeskills and some harmful worldviews. First, there's confirmation bias. Our social group's identity was build around feeling superior, so we chose to value the things we were good at, and forg…

I stopped reading half way through because your shitpost twists everything said into a life of privilege and deceit. My dad was a mechanic. His dad worked in a steel mill. His dad worked in a steel mill. His dad escaped the horrors of WW1 in a country we'll never know.

Go ahead and twist everything I say until it either refutes me or supports whatever agenda you want.

You can talk general shit about fraternities but the minority part really bugs me. Our house was more Asian and African American than it was white. Are you saying my house bought minorities for points? Ballsy. We took them because they were good. My best friend was 100% black and going for his PhD.

Instead of lamely forming your argument by copy editing a few words of mine how about coming up with something of your own?

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#118

Post by cowpig » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 6:34 AM UTC

forgotpw2017 wrote: post #117

cowpig wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprised. I was in a fraternity, and no we didn't haze at all. Between all the events (of which less than a third are parties) and dedication it takes to keep the thing from barreling into the ground you learn some basic lifeskills and some harmful worldviews. First, there's confirmation bias. Our social group's identity was build around feeling superior, so we chose to value the things we were good at, and forg…

I stopped reading half way through because your shitpost twists everything said into a life of privilege and deceit. My dad was a mechanic. His dad worked in a steel mill. His dad worked in a steel mill. His dad escaped the horrors of WW1 in a country we'll never know. Go ahead and twist everything I say until it either refutes me or supports whatever agenda you want. You can talk general shit about fraternities but…

Wasn't trying to twist anything. Just letting you see how your post looks to someone not in your in-group.

It's crazy to me that your worldview is so deeply embedded with tribalism that you think your dad being a mechanic or your friend being black have anything to do with who you are.

The point about minorities is just that: by arguing that you're not racist because minorities are in your tribe, you're showing that you completely miss the point. For you, the in-group is your frat, your world. And being outside your world means lacking a variety of privileges in life.

But race is an in-group too, and maybe that's not one of the tribes you recognize, but for many people it is, and it's the tribalism that's the problem, not the fact that skin color happens to be a particularly easy and dangerous arbitrary criterion for admission into the tribe.

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#119

Post by ZeroGravitas » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 6:57 AM UTC

I find it interesting how strongly HN as a collective believes corporate America isn't a meritocracy in some threads, while in others it assumes hiring decisions are all about merit.

The difference mostly seems to revolve around whether sexism is brought up.

Here we are discussing men joining men-only organisations for networking purposes and the general consensus is basically "duh, that's how I got my job. Everyone knows that's how it works!"

Re: Economic and Academic Consequences of Fraternity Membership

#120

Post by grzm » Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 7:08 AM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #119

I find it interesting how strongly HN as a collective believes corporate America isn't a meritocracy in some threads, while in others it assumes hiring decisions are all about merit. The difference mostly seems to revolve around whether sexism is brought up. Here we are discussing men joining men-only organisations for networking purposes and the general consensus is basically "duh, that's how I got my job. Everyone…

> I find it interesting how strongly HN as a collective believes corporate America isn't a meritocracy in some threads, while in others it assumes hiring decisions are all about merit.

It's because HN isn't a collective in the sense that we all share the same opinions (as much as one might reference the hive mind). There's a wide range of opinions, values, and experiences and you'll notice some piping up in one area and others in, uh, others. Add the wrinkle that we're all (well, likely mostly) human with all of the idiosyncrasies of human psychology that implies. We're perfectly capable of hypocri^H^H^H^H^H logical inconsistency. There's a lot of evidence that our rationality is there primarily to rationalize (in the truest sense) our intuitions and explain them to others.