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How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

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Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#91
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were isolated it might not be such a huge issue, but it's happening quite a lot (relatively). No it isn't. You hear about some of these cases because, rightly, it occasionally hits the media but in general it is not happening a lot (comparatively anyway). People are getting too cagey over child nudity and prudish in general; but I don't think it is a result of either being a pedophile or sex offender. I would…

>No it isn't. You hear about some of these cases because, rightly, it occasionally hits the media but in general it is not happening a lot (comparatively anyway). I put on the relatively tag for a reason. I heard of about 7 cases in one year, each one of them completely insane. That's a lot relative to where I'm living in Europe where I've heard of zero such cases. It's also a lot relative to how many should have hap…

That's a lot relative to where I'm living in Europe where I've heard of zero such cases.

There are similar cases over here (in Europe), you just don't hear about them (for reasons I've never got to the bottom of). 7 cases may seem a lot, and you are right it should be 0. But relative to the number of successful child abusers caught it's a pretty good statistic.

No, most people behave this way because they've been horribly and dangerously brain washed into behaving this way. So how do you "fix" them?

Agreed; this didn't seem to be what you were saying before. But now I see you were less suggesting they were sex offenders but that they should face the consequences too & this would limit their desire for prosecutions.

I disagree with this being the right approach. Where this process failed was the first officer who thought the images were fine but still escalated it; that officer should be someone experienced, qualified and serious enough to have said "no, this is not a concern" - perhaps after quickly talking to the parents.

Now back to our clerk. This person looked at some normal family photos and reacted by ruining someone's life. I think this person finding themselves the subject of such an investigation would be appropriate and effective at teaching people that this kind of bizarre behavior is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

This is a completely different point to one you were originally making - at least how it reads anyway. And I agree; there should be consequences if you deliberately ruin someones life. But if the clerk is acting in good faith (in a way that doesn't sync with the examples you highlighted) so I'd argue a serious word/caution is sufficient to show him/her that they made a mistake and to take more care in the future.

Would you seriously pick the author in that situation? Then I have some bad news for you...

I'd pick neither. end of.

But if we changed your example to me just seeing someone being strangled then I would call the police. Because I saw something extreme happening. I would not call the police if I saw two people hugging. See the difference?

Yes. Sadly it is not a comparable example - because two people hugging is not associated with anything sexual or inappropriate. I was trying to highlight the idea that you might see something that others found sexually enticing but that simply concerned you - in such a case you are not a sexually excited by the event, just concerned. This is the mentality of the clerk; and you are right it is a result of a messed up society.

What should have happened (assuming the clerk is still concerned enough in this perfect situation to have called the police) is the police man should have called the parents, chatted informally to assure himself that it was as he suspected and then left it at that.

The failure here appears to be societies attitude to child nudity followed quickly by maddening bureaucracy.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#92
post #24

This kind of story is indicting of our culture. Outside the US nudity is not so taboo. In my daughter's kindergarten (a nice private school in Southeast Asia) boys and girls share the same bathroom, with no private stalls, and no door on the entrance. Everyone sees everything -- passers-by included. Meanwhile, in the US, nudity is synonymous with sex, and good people have to worry about things like this.

And as the late Terence McKenna put it:

Culture is your Operating System http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8an2XZ3MU

Stuff to ponder about! :O

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#93
Welcome to Child Protective Services, where folks with sociology degrees, sometimes poor cognitivie abilities, and questionable work ethics who want to be on a mission to save the world are given powers that would make the local police chief blush.

I hated to write that. Snarky it was. Of course most of the cases these folks work are really sad -- I have family that work there.

But it's a blunt instrument, and politicians have decided that anything to do with kids gets "special" treatment. I know of about a dozen good people who have had run-ins with these guys. None of them were guilty of anything bad, yet all of them went through hell. (this list includes me) I also know (from my family members who work there) of really bad people who keep their kids through atrocity after atrocity. Very sad.

EDIT: Just guessing, but it's almost like the closer to upper-middle class you are, the more likely you are to be a victim of CPS-gone-wild. The really poor crackheads don't give a shit, so CPS charges them and shuffles them through the system. Nobody has resources for these kids, so they go back to mom and/or dad. The really rich have a platoon of lawyers descend on CPS (and they have political connections). It's the poor schmucks who have the energy and wherewithal to screw around with CPS (probably in a useless attempt to save their reputation) that get dragged through the dirt.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#94
post #13

I had a similar run in with DCF, not for child pornography but for accusations of child abuse. I helped out a high school friend who had become a heroin addict (I had no idea what I was getting into), by letting his family and himself live with me while he tried to recover. It ended up that this was a common scam with him and his wife and they use a sob story to get friends to help them out and once they wear out the…

I guess that's proof positive that no good deed goes unpunished. What bothers me most about this story is that the organization that is nominally in charge of the welfare of children actually achieves the exact opposite by their behviour. These people ought to be summarily dismissed for gross incompetence. I'm happy it wasn't me under investigation if there is one thing that gets my dander up it is abuse of power lik…

Does the DCFS investigate only parents, or can you e.g. accuse a kindergarten? Maybe one could ask DFCS to investigate DCFS?

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#95
post #54

On the one hand I completely sympathize with the author. As a parent myself I would not wish this upon anyone. On the other hand, the author is a journalist, exactly the people who are the cause of this type of witch hunt. If you would leave out the prologue of the story, and make it into a story where the accusations actually were true. Then noone would have blinked about what happened. If they were treated any othe…

> If you would leave out the prologue of the story, and make it into a story where the accusations actually were true. Then noone would have blinked about what happened.

If that's true, then we have a huge problem.

Basically I'm hearing this in that comment: If someone is innocent, they are innocent until proved guilty. If someone is guilty, they are guilty until proved innocent.

The problem with that idea is supremely obvious.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#96
post #53
post #24

This kind of story is indicting of our culture. Outside the US nudity is not so taboo. In my daughter's kindergarten (a nice private school in Southeast Asia) boys and girls share the same bathroom, with no private stalls, and no door on the entrance. Everyone sees everything -- passers-by included. Meanwhile, in the US, nudity is synonymous with sex, and good people have to worry about things like this.

I'll add to that by saying it's a sign of our times as well. I was educated with material from the 60's / 70's & having nudity in school textbooks was perfectly normal then, including shared nudity between adults & children.

I almost have a feeling that in the US we are building up to a Hilter-esque take-over of the government. It's just taking a lot longer than it took the Nazis because the times aren't as extreme, and our system of government was better designed to resist such things...

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#97

I'm very close to people who were saved from really horrible situations by state intervention. But then for them, foster care was hardly any better until they were adopted. The state taking my kids is actually my worst parental nightmare--even beyond all the accidental and criminal bad things that could happen. I'm a very good parent (you'll have to take my word, I guess), but I'm not conventional. And I know all it…

For me it's the #2 nightmare. Leaving the baby in the car in the sun is #1.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#98

Welcome to Child Protective Services, where folks with sociology degrees, sometimes poor cognitivie abilities, and questionable work ethics who want to be on a mission to save the world are given powers that would make the local police chief blush. I hated to write that. Snarky it was. Of course most of the cases these folks work are really sad -- I have family that work there. But it's a blunt instrument, and politi…

I'm just guessing the following numbers for effect, but I believe them to be true within an order of magnitude.

We have a thousand political systems that can punish people. Each one has at least a 1% false-positive rate over our lifetime. That means that each of us will get screwed over many times by government. Hopefully when we get screwed over it won't be like this guy.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#99
post #9

Wait until some enterprising district attorney confiscates your hard drive, surmises you frequent HN, subpoenas your voting history from pg, finds this thread and examines which anti-governement/pro-common-sense comments you up voted. Everything you say (and/or write) may be used against you. Have a nice day :)

[deleted]

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#100
post #13

I had a similar run in with DCF, not for child pornography but for accusations of child abuse. I helped out a high school friend who had become a heroin addict (I had no idea what I was getting into), by letting his family and himself live with me while he tried to recover. It ended up that this was a common scam with him and his wife and they use a sob story to get friends to help them out and once they wear out the…

I have had something similar, someone called "CPS" (Child Protective Services) who came over and told us that our 1 month old child might crawl into my computer cables.. The challenge is that a 1 month old doesn't crawl or do much really. We lived in a studio apartment, turned out her real desire was for us to move. That appeased the social worker for some reason, this was 14 years ago luckily my father was around and he figured out what the social worker wanted because she kept threatening to take our 1 month old son. It was pretty insane.
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