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Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

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Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#141

Post by dentemple »

blaqkangel wrote: post #11

That was incredibly unexpected. Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework. Interesting times indeed.

>I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework

Competing frameworks will now need a new "Reason #1 to use us instead" for their pitch-decks.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#142

Post by Fzzr »

JamesFM wrote: post #133
nostrademons wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implied patent licenses: https://www.wilmerhale.com/pages/publicationsandnewsdetail.a... https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech7.html Basically, if you sell or license a product that requires a patent to work, courts have generally held that you grant an implied patent license for any patents that the product might require. If you explicitly reference patents within the license, however, then whatever t…

This is highly confusing to me. If implicit patent grants are a thing, why have more modern licenses like Apache 2 and GPL 3 made it a point to include explicit patents grants in the language of the license? Wouldn’t their legal counsel advise them against it if it was redundant?

Explicit probably saves a lot of time in court, and helps with global consistency. More importantly, Apache 2 and GPL 3 include reciprocal patent grants. They work similarly to the React patent grant, but unlike that one they go both ways. In the React one, only you lose access to the patents if you sue Facebook, but Facebook can sue you fine even if you contributed to React. Under Apache 2 and GPL 3, no one contributing to the software can sue anyone for patents infringed as a result without having their license revoked in its entirety (copyright AND patent).

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#143

Post by guelo »

kelnos wrote: post #71

So... I guess I still don't understand what was wrong with BSD+Patents. I get that there's legal uncertainty: I can imagine some companies, especially larger ones, not wanting to give up their patent-suit option just because one random small team in their org is using React. And barriers to adoption aren't a great idea when one of your goals is wide adoption. Overall, though, I think making it much harder to file pat…

Unethical developers that work at shitty companies with shitty lawyers were annoyed that they couldn't use React. That's all there is to it.

I loved BSD+patent as one of the few potentially successful attacks on the awful software patents regime that we currently live under. This defeat means we are probably stuck with it for the rest of our careers.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#144

Post by spenczar5 »

kelnos wrote: post #71

So... I guess I still don't understand what was wrong with BSD+Patents. I get that there's legal uncertainty: I can imagine some companies, especially larger ones, not wanting to give up their patent-suit option just because one random small team in their org is using React. And barriers to adoption aren't a great idea when one of your goals is wide adoption. Overall, though, I think making it much harder to file pat…

The current state of things is that patents are stockpiled as deterrents, kind of like nuclear weapons. All of the big companies know that if they sued one another over some patent claim, the other side would retaliate, and it would be a big mess with no real winners.

Facebook's patent clause disarms all their opponents, but leaves them free to attack. It's actually a wildly aggressive, offensive weapon, surprisingly - just like how nuclear missile defense is one of the more provocative technologies out there that possibly makes nuclear conflicts more probably.

That's why it's totally unpalatable, at least at the big companies.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#145

Post by olavgg »

cies wrote: post #140

So which FB project still have a BSD+patents license. I count: * ReasonML - https://github.com/facebook/reason/blob/master/PATENTS.txt * GraphQL - https://github.com/graphql/graphql-js/blob/master/PATENTS * react-native - https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/PATENTS * PlanOut - https://github.com/facebook/planout/blob/master/PATENTS * Flow - https://github.com/facebook/flow/blob/master/PATENTS * Haxl…

https://github.com/facebook/fb.resnet.torch/blob/master/PATE...

https://github.com/caffe2/caffe2/blob/master/PATENTS

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#146

Post by chrisco255 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #70
CydeWeys wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the list of packages they're truly open sourcing is intentionally small, then. They're only truly open sourcing the ones that are very popular and that had a huge amount of outcry over the license. That makes it worse.

Of course its intentional, unless you truely thought they forgot about React Native. The common thread here is that these libraries are often used together - changing React's license wouldn't have helped if they're also using Flow and Jest.

They said they're evaluating those. Facebook has to consider the impact of each library on their patent portfolio. They may not choose MIT for some of them. Maybe they'll go with Apache v2 for React Native. Let's relax. They're making the right moves here.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#147

Post by berfarah »

cies wrote: post #140

So which FB project still have a BSD+patents license. I count: * ReasonML - https://github.com/facebook/reason/blob/master/PATENTS.txt * GraphQL - https://github.com/graphql/graphql-js/blob/master/PATENTS * react-native - https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/PATENTS * PlanOut - https://github.com/facebook/planout/blob/master/PATENTS * Flow - https://github.com/facebook/flow/blob/master/PATENTS * Haxl…

Flow is specifically mentioned in the linked release as getting rid of it...

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#148

Post by spenczar5 »

guelo wrote: post #143
kelnos wrote: post #71

So... I guess I still don't understand what was wrong with BSD+Patents. I get that there's legal uncertainty: I can imagine some companies, especially larger ones, not wanting to give up their patent-suit option just because one random small team in their org is using React. And barriers to adoption aren't a great idea when one of your goals is wide adoption. Overall, though, I think making it much harder to file pat…

Unethical developers that work at shitty companies with shitty lawyers were annoyed that they couldn't use React. That's all there is to it. I loved BSD+patent as one of the few potentially successful attacks on the awful software patents regime that we currently live under. This defeat means we are probably stuck with it for the rest of our careers.

I think you have it backwards. The facebook patent license puts all the power in their hands, and none in yours: they can still sue you for violating their patents, but you can't sue them. It would be a much, much worse patent regime.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#149

Post by damosneeze »

kbenson wrote: post #113
damosneeze wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think it was entirely related. Facebook could likely put up with a few dissenters here and there, but a major defector such as Wordpress is a canary: they likely feared that this would be the first domino to topple React's supremacy. FB: "...we know that many teams went through the process of selecting an alternative library to React. We're sorry for the churn. We don't expect to win these teams back by…

> This pretty much proves I believe the wording you are looking for is "strongly implies", because that's all it is, an implication. There is no proof. (and not even a boat to be seen ;).

You're right. "Proves" was the wrong word.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#150

Post by dehli »

cies wrote: post #140

So which FB project still have a BSD+patents license. I count: * ReasonML - https://github.com/facebook/reason/blob/master/PATENTS.txt * GraphQL - https://github.com/graphql/graphql-js/blob/master/PATENTS * react-native - https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/PATENTS * PlanOut - https://github.com/facebook/planout/blob/master/PATENTS * Flow - https://github.com/facebook/flow/blob/master/PATENTS * Haxl…

According to the link posted, it looks like Flow will also be relicensed to MIT.
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