Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 76 posts

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#21

Post by tony101 »

ScottBurson wrote: post #16

The distinction I would suggest is that CBP should have the power to search the effects of entering travelers looking for physical contraband; so, for instance, to examine a laptop and cell phone to make sure they're not fakes full of cocaine or fentanyl or something. They should have no jurisdiction over information . They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly…

The proposed "Protecting Data at the Border Act" makes the distinction between physical vs. digital examination that you mention.

https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/s823/BILLS-115s823is.pdf

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#22

Post by ScottBurson »

tony101 wrote: post #21
ScottBurson wrote: post #16

The distinction I would suggest is that CBP should have the power to search the effects of entering travelers looking for physical contraband; so, for instance, to examine a laptop and cell phone to make sure they're not fakes full of cocaine or fentanyl or something. They should have no jurisdiction over information . They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly…

The proposed "Protecting Data at the Border Act" makes the distinction between physical vs. digital examination that you mention. https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/s823/BILLS-115s823is.pdf

Aha, so it does! The corresponding House bill is HR 1899.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#23

Post by tony101 »

adventist wrote: post #15

It would seem to me that the Federal Government is in charge of the border, and that until you are actually in the United States, you have no reasonable expectation of the Bill of Rights. There are many things that need to get checked at the border. Maybe they could just have a judge there to stamp each request as it goes through.

Just because it is the Federal government does not mean they can do whatever they want. The Bill of Rights limits government power, especially those of the Federal government.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#24

Post by crispyambulance »

outoftacos wrote: post #2

I haven't traveled abroad in a couple years, so I'm not sure exactly how this works, but I would be unable to contain my laughter if some CBP cop asked me to unlock my phone or laptop. Is this something that actually happens nowadays? Why on earth would anyone ever consent to this nonsense?

I, and almost anyone else, would consent to it for the sake of getting on the flight. Yeah, I don't like it either. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does I imagine these outcomes:

1) Handover unlocked device, let CBP knuckle-dragger browse through it, in front of me, until they're bored and they hand it back. Get on flight. This is the best case scenario.

2) Handover unlocked device, CPB knucke-dragger takes it to back room where he may or may not download all contents and store it, enabling NSA to play seven-degrees-of-keven-bacon, Osama-edition, forever. That's the worst scenario, but very unlikely that anything comes of that.

3) Laugh at CBP knuckle-dragger, keep phone locked, miss flight, go to airport detention for an indeterminate amount of time until I give in and handover unlocked phone, be subject to scrutiny and "commentary" from CBP official, and maybe, get put on a list somewhere which will cause this to happen every time I fly.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#25

Post by b3lvedere »

dsp1234 wrote: post #19
wallace_f wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my whole life on my phone and laptop. Most of the details and particularly papers , as stated in the 4th, of my life are contained there. I also need my devices to function and keep up like a normal person in 2017, and to keep a job. So if I need to leave the country and come back, and must bring them, I just forfeited my expectation of privacy guaranteed by the bill of rights?

I should no longer have any expectation of privacy The above poster suggests even worse. "until you are actually in the United States, you have no reasonable expectation of the Bill of Rights.". They suggest you have no constitutional rights outside of the US border. Forget your cell phone, this would imply that black bag operations are completely legal as long as the US citizen is outside of US borders at the time.

About time there is a system where you can make a super cool backup of your entire smartphone and laptop on a remote system, then completely wipe these devices and restore it when you are safe from the border officers. icloud total backup or something :)

"Sure officer, i'll unlock my phone and my laptop. There's absolutely nothing on it."

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#26

Post by b3lvedere »

tony101 wrote: post #23
adventist wrote: post #15

It would seem to me that the Federal Government is in charge of the border, and that until you are actually in the United States, you have no reasonable expectation of the Bill of Rights. There are many things that need to get checked at the border. Maybe they could just have a judge there to stamp each request as it goes through.

Just because it is the Federal government does not mean they can do whatever they want. The Bill of Rights limits government power, especially those of the Federal government.

Before you and them both realize that fact, a lot of time (and maybe money) has been wasted.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#27

Post by emiliobumachar »

jordigh wrote: post #6

Can someone offer a simple explanation of why the EFF and ACLU might succeed? I remember seeing big signs at US border crossings that said YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS in big allcaps, and I think the law is mostly on their side. Those signs are probably still there.

Wow, that was dystopian.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#29

Post by jacquesm »

robin_reala wrote: post #5

But only for people who are US citizens, or at least permanent residents. It’s not making visiting the US any more appealing to the rest of the world.

Well, tbh it wasn't all that appealing even without these ridiculous rules. I used to travel there several times per year, haven't been back in over a decade now. There is a lot more than just these searches from the point of view of an international business traveler or tourist.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#30

Post by 24gttghh »

ScottBurson wrote: post #16

The distinction I would suggest is that CBP should have the power to search the effects of entering travelers looking for physical contraband; so, for instance, to examine a laptop and cell phone to make sure they're not fakes full of cocaine or fentanyl or something. They should have no jurisdiction over information . They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly…

>They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly don't want to give them that power!

I believe the NSA already does this or it is within their 'jurisdiction'.

Post reply on HN