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Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

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Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#161

Post by [deleted] »

olalonde wrote: post #53
gnaritas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We call what the founders described a representative democracy, whether they used the word or not isn't relevant as what they meant by democracy is more aptly called direct democracy today. You are objecting to the use of a term because you aren't using the term in the modern way, and that's a silly semantic debate. The United States is a democracy according to the modern use of the word, please just accept it and st…

I think parent's point was simply that being critical of democracy does not automatically make you a "neo-feudalist". For example, countries with a strong constitution like the USA have a more constrained democratic process.

[deleted]

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#162

Post by winter_blue »

aaroninsf wrote: post #46
jules wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel is hardly alone in this view. Many libertarians are in favour of a constitutional republic over a democracy where 51% of the people have absolute power.

Precisely. Because 51% affords far too much voice for the rabble. Relevant: http://dalependell.com/essays/remembering-the-regulation-cal...

Wow, that was an amazing read. I'm adding Dale Pendell to my list of blogs to follow. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#163

Post by yahna »

KGIII wrote: post #47
SapphireSun wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be fair to say that US libertarians are anarcho-capitalists while the leftist libertarians are anarcho-syndicalists?

Not really, no. Libertarian is, on the political compass, the opposite of authoritarian. As such, there's actually a whole spectrum of beliefs. Anarchists believe in no laws. Libertarians believe in increased liberty for the individual. This can be manifest as a reduction of laws, it may be as extreme as a desire for anarchy. Libertarian really is (was?) about increasing and protecting the individual liberties, maxim…

> Now, they are seen as the crazy right

Crazy right makes them sound very far to the right.

I'd consider them more kooky right, but in such a way that the result of their policies would be extremely far right. If everyone was a libertarian then maybe it would work better.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#164

Post by yahna »

matrixtransform wrote: post #137
olalonde wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most US libertarians are just proponents of classical liberalism. "Left libertarianism" is very niche and sounds a bit like an oxymoron to me. I don't know much about Peter Thiel but it's hard for me to reconcile his outspoken support for Trump with the "libertarian" label.

Isn't "liberal" often used as an insult in the US by the likes of Ann Coulter and other far-right xenophobic conservatives? I think the confusion is that the term is used for all sorts of things like economic liberals (neo-liberal de-regulators), social liberals (into multi-culturalism and identity politics) and Ayn Randian sea-steaders and techno-utopians, which is where classical liberals often seem to end up on a…

Recent trend is to try and brand certain types of conservatism as "classical liberalism".

Don't really know why, but it's what they seem to want to do.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#165

Post by croon »

likeclockwork wrote: post #140
croon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With no party to enforce it.

All the parties who agreed to the contract are responsible for enforcing it.

Against non-agreeing parties? So in the end it's just an elected government?

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#166

Post by timthelion »

hal9000xp wrote: post #109
confounded wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perot was in favor of direct democracy, Theil believes that democracy is making things too difficult for capitalism. Perot was in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, Theil is effectively a feudalist. Both men were billionaires who invested in computing and were involved in the 'military industrial complex'. But the word 'libertarian' has been dragged so far to the right in the US in recent years that it's not a me…

I'm tired of two so wide spread dogmas - "will of majority is absolute good", "rich owes money to society, so we need rip them off". I lived in Sweden and now I live in the Netherlands. You have better chance to meet alien from another galactic than a person who doesn't believe in these dogmas. So I definitely see absolute political monogamy here. In centralized democracy high earners have absolutely no voice. I.e. f…

As a far left thinker myself, I too hate this obsession with taxing income. If we are going to tax the rich, we should tax equity not income. Tax the land the rich own, tax the resources they extract, tax the patents and intellectual property rights they hold. Tax only that. How free would we all be, if there was no tax on economic activity?

I like to use the analogy of two boys in a playing field kicking a ball back and forth. Lets value the ball at $10. Each time they pass the ball from one to the other, they "create" $10 worth of economic activity, and under a simplified version of current logic, they should pay the state $2 for each pass. But what should really be taxed is the ball itself, and the land upon which they play. Not the number of times the ball changes hands.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#167

Post by timthelion »

seren wrote: post #89
jjeaff wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the wealthy don't donate to politicians in the rest of the western world?

Actually in Europe, it depends of the country but it is pretty heavily regulated. Parties are paid with a mix of public funding (propotional to the number of vote at the last elections, or number of elected public figures) and private donations. Then for private donation (individual or corporation) there are really low limits. For example in Ireland, the maximum donation for a party per year is about 6,000€. So sure…

Andrej Babiš a Czech Billionaire, payed for the political campaign that put his party, ANO, into power out of pocket. It is certainly not true that all European countries have strict regulations.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#168

Post by likeclockwork »

croon wrote: post #165
likeclockwork wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the parties who agreed to the contract are responsible for enforcing it.

Against non-agreeing parties? So in the end it's just an elected government?

No more than your neighbors constitute an elected government.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#169

Post by prostoalex »

d--b wrote: post #129
hal9000xp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tired of two so wide spread dogmas - "will of majority is absolute good", "rich owes money to society, so we need rip them off". I lived in Sweden and now I live in the Netherlands. You have better chance to meet alien from another galactic than a person who doesn't believe in these dogmas. So I definitely see absolute political monogamy here. In centralized democracy high earners have absolutely no voice. I.e. f…

That is certainly not true. In the US, republicans control the presidency and congress. It means that somewhere around 50% of american people believe that the rich should be taxed much less. I believe a similar fraction of European countries believe that too. The rich (whether they're on the left or on the right) have a massive impact on the media. Think Rupert Murdoch, think Oprah. There are 27 billionaires in Swede…

> In the US, republicans control the presidency and congress. It means that somewhere around 50% of american people believe that the rich should be taxed much less.

It does not. Democrats have always policed their taxation language towards "high income" and never "rich". The difference between the two is that the second group does not have to work to generate such income. The money flowing from inheritance, trust fund, municipal bonds, oil wells or massive land holdings is good enough.

How many wealth taxes have Democrats proposed while controlling various branches and enjoying a supermajority back in the days?

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#170

Post by jules »

b1daly wrote: post #114
jules wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel is hardly alone in this view. Many libertarians are in favour of a constitutional republic over a democracy where 51% of the people have absolute power.

A key point in the philosophical foundation of democracy is that it is a good system for making decisions of consequence. One can fashion a simplistic thought experiment where a simple majority votes to take resources from the minority, presumably against the minoritys' will. That seems rather unjust, or unfair. What this glosses over is that governments need to make policy and decisions. Inevitably, there will be wi…

Usually it is not a monarch but a law that limits the power of the 51%. In some countries you need a two thirds majority to make constitution changes, for instance.
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