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A new kind of map: it’s about time

blog.mapbox.com

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Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#131

Post by nerdponx »

bhntr3 wrote: post #128
chippy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a geographer I cringed. The article was written in a way that made it sound a bit more important than it actually is, and I think that quote was one of it. A designer finding geography and cartography for the first time. It IS good stuff though. Maybe the writing is stylised and maybe not as humble as usual techy writing? People do think about space and the environment in spatial terms and also in time. This artic…

Yeah. This is showy and really cool. But it seems kind of unnecessary to make it "a map" In terms of solving real problems, I don't see it as functionally any better than a list ordered by distance with a small compass showing directionality. Basically what you see on the left when you search google maps for "pizza in san francisco". The benefit of that list is that it uses space much more efficiently and can show th…

It's actually much more useful as a spatial data visualization then as a "map" as such.

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#132

Post by TFortunato »

ballenarosada wrote: post #79
TFortunato wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think as far as figuring out the transformation to use on the a generic map I would: 0) ignore stuff like "infinitely quick" since that isn't realistic for what we are doing :-) 1) For the map I am displaying, pick a handful of points of interest to hse as controls, as well as my current location. 2) Use existing data we already have for stuff like direction routing to get travel times between all the pairs in our…

There's no reason your distance graph should correspond to any continuous mapping of the plane. Two distances constrain a third point to one of two spots. Add a third distance and unless you get lucky, there will be no valid corresponding point in the codomain.

That is absolutely true, and I fully admit that there isn't going to be a perfect way to do this unless you are very lucky. I'm only curious if you could use a method like this to make maps like shown above at http://www.spiekermann-wegener.com/mod/time/time_e.htm where it's approximately correct in a somewhat useful way.

My gut says it's probably more realistic to do this for large scale maps (say between major cities, 100s of miles, where distance is pretty proportional to travel time). Once you get down to the city / street level, yeah it probably gets real dicey with high variation in travel speeds depending on the particular road and how routes are laid out, and you just aren't going to get pretty triangles fitting together nicely :-P.

In any case its a fun problem to think about!

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#133

Post by scott_karana »

nerdponx wrote: post #113
zingplex wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that "meme" in this context is being used within the dictionary definition of the word, meaning "an idea, behavior, style, or usage that spreads from person to person within a culture" according to Merriam-Webster.

That's the definition I'm using. I don't understand what's so noteworthy or funny about that example for it to become a meme.

I'm guessing, but presumably "pizza in San Francisco" is a representative GIS problem that pushes all the right buttons and acts as a good shakedown test, and has become a "standard".

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#134

Post by DonHopkins »

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Chris Lightfoot's beautiful interactive time travel maps that he did with MySociety and Stamen Design:

http://v1.stamen.com/clients/mysociety.html

MySociety Travel Time Maps

Interactive maps of travel time and housing prices in London

MySociety, an NGO which builds websites that give people simple, tangible benefits in the civic and community aspects of their lives, came to Stamen with a remit to explore two fascinating datasets: median prices of homes throughout London, and the time it takes to travel from one place to another throughout the city.

https://www.mysociety.org/2007/03/05/more-travel-time-maps-a...

https://www.mysociety.org/2007/03/05/real-time-travel-maps/

Chris Lightfoot (4 August 1978 — 11 February 2007) was an English scientist and political activist. He was the first developer, with Tom Steinberg, at e-democracy charity mySociety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lightfoot

Sometimes, it’s more useful to know a journey time than it is to know the distance.

That’s why people often refer to ‘an hour’s commute’ rather than ‘40 miles’.

Mapumental is a beautiful tool to show public transport travel times, from or to a chosen postcode, on a timebanded map. These can be embedded in websites, apps or online tools, or used for internal research purposes.

Transit-time maps, also known as isochrone maps, are not a new idea: there are examples dating back hundreds of years. But the online technologies behind Mapumental are new – and have unleashed a great many possibilities for all kinds of users.

https://www.mysociety.org/better-cities/mapumental/

Mapumental developed the project (site currently down for maintainance):

http://www.mapumental.com/

Stamen Design has done lots of really cool stuff with maps:

http://v1.stamen.com/

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#135

Post by microcolonel »

mxfh wrote: post #47
qznc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I was hoping for some weird pictures of distorted maps.

Here you go. The prior art you were looking for: http://www.spiekermann-wegener.com/mod/time/time_e.htm

It would be interesting to reproject a map by mutual travel time using isomap. I suspect error per point would be very high, but still interesting.

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#136

Post by sytelus »

This is good idea but could be done differently. One major issue is that time is not only the optimization criteria. For example, if there are two places both 30 minutes away but one requires me to take tons of turns through narrow streets while other is straight forward highway driving then I would chose the later. Hack I would later even if cost was 25% more. Others may have some other criteria, for example, eating near river shore instead of in dirty back alley.

The bottom line is that you can't just throwaway physical maps. One way to marry your idea in physical may might be to color code places according to how far they are.

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#137

Post by padobson »

I'd like to see a version of this where you can input a list of errands - work, groceries, daycare, gas, gym - and it distills all the travel into a single dot. You pick the dot with the least amount of time and it gives you a list of locations in the order you should travel.

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#139

Post by alphaalpha101 »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #129
bllguo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the article arguing that all maps should be replaced with this visualization. It's a much better map for certain tasks. Of course you lose information by throwing out geography.

The issue is that people slide from it being a good map for some particular purpose to some blanket claim that all people really need to know is is . The old classic case of this is geographically challenged reporters raphsodising about the London tube map https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube . I love the London tube map, but when I lived there, it was all the more useful to me because I look at other maps so that I co…

I disagree about the London tube map. I think it's brilliant. I barely looked at a real map any of the times I've stayed in London. I know the places I want to go, all the guide books (and locals!) tell you the nearest tube station, I know the nearest tube station to where I am. Why do I need a 'real' map?

Re: A new kind of map: it’s about time

#140

Post by leoc »

mxfh wrote: post #47
qznc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I was hoping for some weird pictures of distorted maps.

Here you go. The prior art you were looking for: http://www.spiekermann-wegener.com/mod/time/time_e.htm

Another one, for the London Underground: http://www.cityam.com/234508/this-alternative-tube-map-shows... The map itself https://petertrotman.com/special/london-underground-travel-t... is having certificate issues atm.
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