Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 47 posts

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#21

Post by tombrossman »

Spivak wrote: post #19
0x445442 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting thought. Like other professions which have license to affect an individual physically, such as doctors, perhaps the first responders should carry some type of "malpractice" malpractice insurance.

It's turtles all the way down though. If police need to carry malpractice insurance then the cost will have to be built into salary which is paid by the taxpayers. It might be cheaper to just have the state pay out then pay for a bunch of individual insurance policies.

Not necessarily, they can move to another police department if they get fired for wrongdoing at their current job. This happens frequently. An insurance company underwriting police malpractice policies wouldn't go for that, they would track the officer's claims history and deny coverage (or make it prohibitively expensive), same as if you kept wrecking cars, submitting claims, and switching car insurance companies.

When the state pays directly, there is no incentive for the individual to behave. If the state paid the officer's salary plus a standard 'allowance' equal to the cost of police malpractice insurance for an officer with no claims, then the incentive is to keep their record clean or pay higher rates out of pocket for misbehaviour.

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#22

Post by codazoda »

Spivak wrote: post #19
0x445442 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting thought. Like other professions which have license to affect an individual physically, such as doctors, perhaps the first responders should carry some type of "malpractice" malpractice insurance.

It's turtles all the way down though. If police need to carry malpractice insurance then the cost will have to be built into salary which is paid by the taxpayers. It might be cheaper to just have the state pay out then pay for a bunch of individual insurance policies.

The only difference I can see is that, like your car policy, if you have to pay a claim your rates go up. That would cause someone not to want a claim filed against them because their salary goes down (assuming the department doesn't just raise their salary to compensate). Still, I think you're right, the tax costs would just go up.

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#23

Post by justaman »

quuquuquu wrote: post #2

"Be American, get arrested." It is truer and truer every day. I deliberately avoid a pathway or roadway if I can see a police officer there. These guys are overpaid, hyped-up, and ignorant of whatever law you cite when they wrongfully arrest you. The chief has their back, and suing them is expensive and risky. Plus you are in prison until you are allowed to post bail. To anyone who disagrees: 70% of prisoners are the…

Its actually really easy to not get arrested. You just need to follow the general rule of not being a dumbass. You sound like one of these neo-marxist jokes. What the police busted up your riot? Keep crying about how the police are a problem and don't bother calling them when your car gets stolen or someone breaks into your place. That'll work out for ya!

Yeah search youtube and pretend that's an actual sample that isn't bias. Naturally people upload the fringe cases.

I am American. Treat the cop like a human and you will be surprised. Not all cops are bad. Being a cop is basically agreeing to be terrified at all times for a living.

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#25

Post by monkmartinez »

alyandon wrote: post #12
adekok wrote: post #6

I have an engineering question: Is there any negative feedback for police who violate peoples rights like this? I don't mean theoretically. I mean practically, is there any negative feedback? The reason this is an engineering question is I think we all know what happens to control systems without negative feedback.

The only negative consequences are to the taxpayer that has to pay to settle these things out of court. Would be nice if the arresting officers were held financially liable to some degree and then you can bet they'd make a better effort to be sure they were making lawful arrests.

Yeah! Let those men and women making $55k a year pay for their "arrest insurance!" /s

This is a terrible idea for so many reasons, I find it hard to believe it was brought up. Part of the reason why Doctors earn/charge so much is due to the insurance they must carry.

I am a first responder and I would gladly carry insurance if I was compensated for it. Taken one step further, I would now like to be compensated for the exposure to disease, injury, environmental toxins, and more. Maybe we should strike and show the public how much they get for $55k a year?

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#26

Post by monkmartinez »

justaman wrote: post #23
quuquuquu wrote: post #2

"Be American, get arrested." It is truer and truer every day. I deliberately avoid a pathway or roadway if I can see a police officer there. These guys are overpaid, hyped-up, and ignorant of whatever law you cite when they wrongfully arrest you. The chief has their back, and suing them is expensive and risky. Plus you are in prison until you are allowed to post bail. To anyone who disagrees: 70% of prisoners are the…

Its actually really easy to not get arrested. You just need to follow the general rule of not being a dumbass. You sound like one of these neo-marxist jokes. What the police busted up your riot? Keep crying about how the police are a problem and don't bother calling them when your car gets stolen or someone breaks into your place. That'll work out for ya! Yeah search youtube and pretend that's an actual sample that i…

Thank you. I am not a cop, but I am a firefighter. I am consistently amazed at humanity... in meatspace, not in a positive way. Then I read about it in pixel space and shake my head in amazement once more. You nailed it. Don't be a dumbass... it is shockingly easy.

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#27

Post by snakeanus »

monkmartinez wrote: post #25
alyandon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only negative consequences are to the taxpayer that has to pay to settle these things out of court. Would be nice if the arresting officers were held financially liable to some degree and then you can bet they'd make a better effort to be sure they were making lawful arrests.

Yeah! Let those men and women making $55k a year pay for their "arrest insurance!" /s This is a terrible idea for so many reasons, I find it hard to believe it was brought up. Part of the reason why Doctors earn/charge so much is due to the insurance they must carry. I am a first responder and I would gladly carry insurance if I was compensated for it. Taken one step further, I would now like to be compensated for th…

> $55k a year

This is actually a LOT. My mother who even has a PHD and works as a teacher only makes 16.8k per year.

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#28

Post by BoiledCabbage »

monkmartinez wrote: post #25
alyandon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only negative consequences are to the taxpayer that has to pay to settle these things out of court. Would be nice if the arresting officers were held financially liable to some degree and then you can bet they'd make a better effort to be sure they were making lawful arrests.

Yeah! Let those men and women making $55k a year pay for their "arrest insurance!" /s This is a terrible idea for so many reasons, I find it hard to believe it was brought up. Part of the reason why Doctors earn/charge so much is due to the insurance they must carry. I am a first responder and I would gladly carry insurance if I was compensated for it. Taken one step further, I would now like to be compensated for th…

This is a very emotion-based response to a rational post. I understand you are in the profession and it is important to you, but that shouldn't mean

> This is a terrible idea for so many reasons

So list some of the reasons, rather than just dismiss the idea.

> I am a first responder and I would gladly carry insurance if I was compensated for it.

So now it sounds like it isn't a terrible idea at all and you agree with it if compensated. The take away I get from this is "first responders are paid too little to be held responsible for their actions." Lots of professions are paid very little and are still held responsible for intentionally reckless or malicious behavior.

> I would now like to be compensated for the exposure to disease, injury, environmental toxins, and more.

Sure that's fine as well, but against has no bearing on a person being responsible for their actions. Again it sounds like a justification of "first responders don't have to be responsible for their actions because xyz other concern". And shouldn't your union be negotiating for compensation for these things?

To me it sounds like exactly a viable solution. First responders must carry insurance for extremely negligent or malicious behavior, and should have an increase in salary across the board to cover average insurance cost.

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#29

Post by ouid »

snakeanus wrote: post #27
monkmartinez wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah! Let those men and women making $55k a year pay for their "arrest insurance!" /s This is a terrible idea for so many reasons, I find it hard to believe it was brought up. Part of the reason why Doctors earn/charge so much is due to the insurance they must carry. I am a first responder and I would gladly carry insurance if I was compensated for it. Taken one step further, I would now like to be compensated for th…

> $55k a year This is actually a LOT. My mother who even has a PHD and works as a teacher only makes 16.8k per year.

it's not, it's slightly lower than the gdp per capita for the US.

Re: EFF to Court: The First Amendment Protects the Right to Record First Responders

#30

Post by elorm »

No one sees anything wrong with this ? What about the privacy of the victim? I'm not sure I'd like my pictures or a video of me suffering/dying all over the internet.

Is this not the same reason families ask for privacy when suicide/attempted suicide victims are being attended to ?

Post reply on HN