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How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

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Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#41

Post by wink »

icebraining wrote: post #16
wink wrote: post #6

When reading about things like this I'm always wondering if I'm the odd one out or others' perceptions are really off. Background: I live in Munich, Germany which grew from ~1.3m to 1.5m people in my lifetime. I've never lived in the city center, and never outside. Just in "normal" neighborhoods, as I'd call them. And the same discussion about "brick and mortar book stores" and their downfall and people lamenting the…

My experience (in Portugal) is that they provide a sort of safety net and offer small but precious favors, thanks to being owned by a Person (and not a faceless corporation) who you can get to know and establish a trust relationship. Our corner stores provide items on credit for local residents when money stretches thin before the paycheck arrives, they deliver for free to the poor old lady who can't leave her home,…

Thanks for the explanation, and I think that matches my mental model when people talk about those. But I've not even experienced that in small towns or villages where relatives or friends live.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#42

Post by hownottowrite »

falsedan wrote: post #23
hownottowrite wrote: post #13

How is this "situation" with Bodega any different than the destruction of small town shops (and small towns in general) over the last 50 years? This article could easily be retitled: "How This Article Typifies Urban Cultural Ignorance of the World Beyond the City Walls."

> How is this "situation" with Bodega any different than the destruction of small town shops? The $2.5MM funding for a bad vending machine which will only work in cities, in the face of extreme income inequality.

Don't get me wrong, I think Bodega is an exceptionally stupid idea. What bothers me is the outrage about the potential loss of these small shops in urban areas when absolutely zero concern was paid to the eventual shredding of the social fabric of rural communities. The author of the article does not address this, even in passing.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#43

Post by falsedan »

pault wrote: post #32

The author literally dehumanizes the founders and all tech workers , calling them "machines" and "things in suits". What a terrible, clickbaity article.

"things in human suits", actually. This is an apt description of some tech workers I've worked with, and some of the commantari here.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#44

Post by TeMPOraL »

falsedan wrote: post #38
gcatalfamo wrote: post #19

I don't want to always sound critic of the USA, but if here in Italy you opened an activity with real or supposed insert your favourite heritage here style, no one would ever care. You would get awful reviews if you weren't doing a good job of it, but aside from that, why would anyone really be offended? If you guys were coherent, places like Olive Garden should never exist. And I am not even starting on how much of…

> if here in Italy you opened an activity with real or supposed insert your favourite heritage here style, no one would ever care I bet many people would care, but they would not persistently & vocally voice their discomfort for fear of retribution/confrontation. > how should we Italians feel about being always portrayed as "pizza, mafia, gobbledygook mamma mia"? In popular media? Complain to the broadcaster/studio/p…

I think your comment perfectly proves GP's point.

> I bet many people would care, but they would not persistently & vocally voice their discomfort for fear of retribution/confrontation.

How about: because they have better things to do with their time? The perception of oppression of any group you can name is mostly just manufactured.

> Because you think that the stereotypes unfairly prejudice Italians who may be denied opportunities in those countries.

If this is actually happening, then such a country has a much deeper problem of people being dumb enough to deny opportunities out of petty prejudices. This is not a normal state.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#45

Post by dagw »

Laforet wrote: post #12
kstenerud wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America (especially the East coast), the mom & pop bodegas serve as impromptu social gathering places for the locals, as the store and its owners are very much a part of the community. Taking that away feels a lot like ripping apart a family.

Sounds like general stores in small towns closing down because a Walmart has opened next door.

To be fair, a lot of people are seriously angry at Walmart about that as well.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#46

Post by gcatalfamo »

falsedan wrote: post #38
gcatalfamo wrote: post #19

I don't want to always sound critic of the USA, but if here in Italy you opened an activity with real or supposed insert your favourite heritage here style, no one would ever care. You would get awful reviews if you weren't doing a good job of it, but aside from that, why would anyone really be offended? If you guys were coherent, places like Olive Garden should never exist. And I am not even starting on how much of…

> if here in Italy you opened an activity with real or supposed insert your favourite heritage here style, no one would ever care I bet many people would care, but they would not persistently & vocally voice their discomfort for fear of retribution/confrontation. > how should we Italians feel about being always portrayed as "pizza, mafia, gobbledygook mamma mia"? In popular media? Complain to the broadcaster/studio/p…

Look, if I were to believe I was being denied opportunities in the US because of the portrayal Olive Garden (and the like) was doing about Italy and Italian, I think I wouldn't deserve the job in first place.

Culture is important, you must know yours and others, but I really believe people on certain echo chamber aren't getting their priorities straight.

Or, if you let me, they have life SO good, they have run out of good things to complain about.

But I know I may sound to harsh about this. It's the perception we get from overseas.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#47

Post by bloat »

harryh wrote: post #28
bloat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote is in the article, where it makes it clear that the founders only said it after the backlash had begun.

It doesn't matter when they said it. It should be self evident to anyone that it's true. You can't replace a store with ~1000 products with a vending machine that stocks ~30.

The timing matters because it contradicts something they said before they starting facing criticism.

"Eventually, centralized shopping locations won't be necessary, because there will be 100,000 Bodegas spread out, with one always 100 feet away from you."

Whether it's possible or not, it was their aim, according to this statement anyway.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#48

Post by imartin2k »

kmonad wrote: post #27
imartin2k wrote: post #21

I don't take anyone seriously who casually calls something like Bodega an "offensive idea", as if this is the most natural thing to do. A name choice ca be bad without the whole idea "being offensive". Lazy labels are bad for discourse.

The article is not centered around the choice of name, it's an example. The offensiveness, to the author, comes from more than that.

It's the idea that "offensiveness" even is a reasonable critical descriptor of a startup idea that i see as a problem. This is such a fluid term which lacks any clear, objective boundaries. Everybody has their own view on what's offensive (apart from some areas in which somewhat of a consensus exists about offensiveness, mostly regarding pejorative expressions). Some people have a thick skin and find nothing offensive, others consider any opposing argument presented in a determined tone offensive. And then there is a huge space in between.

Therefore expanding the scope of "offensiveness" more and more is, in my eyes, a problematic trend.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#49

Post by gcatalfamo »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #44
falsedan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if here in Italy you opened an activity with real or supposed insert your favourite heritage here style, no one would ever care I bet many people would care, but they would not persistently & vocally voice their discomfort for fear of retribution/confrontation. > how should we Italians feel about being always portrayed as "pizza, mafia, gobbledygook mamma mia"? In popular media? Complain to the broadcaster/studio/p…

I think your comment perfectly proves GP's point. > I bet many people would care, but they would not persistently & vocally voice their discomfort for fear of retribution/confrontation. How about: because they have better things to do with their time? The perception of oppression of any group you can name is mostly just manufactured. > Because you think that the stereotypes unfairly prejudice Italians who may be deni…

I couldn't voice it any better, thank you.

Re: How Bodega typifies Silicon Valley’s cultural ignorance

#50

Post by falsedan »

harryh wrote: post #26
kmonad wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? That very statement by the founders is discussed and contextualized within. Where's the lie?

When you say that a company is trying to do something that: 1) They've explicitly said they aren't trying to do. 2) Given their product, would be a ridiculous thing to try to do in the first place. It's a lie.

The title & OP don't claim that this company want to eliminate bodegas… it's about cultural insensitivity.

Are you arguing against the linked FastCompany article?

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